View unanswered posts | View active topics Use Active Topics to see the latest post to this Forum, Just Register on the forum and login in to leave comments and opinions. It is currently 24 May 2018 13:48
You are visiting from

Forum rules


Notice: Post topics with comments here should include some kind of detailed text, supplemented by photos, UTube / links added only if necessary to support your text. Post in General Discussions otherwise. Post and comments can be transferred or deleted! Your corporation is is most appreciated to help maintain this archive areas of the site!



Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Proposal 
Author Message
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1710
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Maybe you should ask a suitable FCP expert on the subject for an update on the reloading proposal? Meanwhile the tedious concern on an allusion of controversies dancing on the head of a pin continues. Why anything won't be implement until a final report lasting another 37 years, covering the same cultural literacy conundrums, costing the poor taxpayer billions. It might explain the delay?

For a more realistic outlook, across the border in anyone of the remaining EU states -- just look in wonder at over the counter sales of BLACK POWDER (GUNPOWDER) ( UN Class 1.3 G Explosive) the main ingredient used in fireworks, widely available from supermarkets selling to the EU public...without the paperwork requirement and payment of an Irish health & safety approved license..

Thunder von Weco - 2,99€ bei Lidl
https://youtu.be/M1Ed14gd7Ho

3 for 20 back garden display
http://www.getreading.co.uk/whats-on/fa ... s-10351352

Black Powder Log Splitting (main ingredient used in fireworks & pipe-bombs)
https://youtu.be/XG8y5sPOFGM


26 Apr 2017 12:15
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
It's been pored over every which way like those bumps quizzed at ballyragget gaa :mrgreen:


23 Nov 2017 20:42
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1013
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Sikamick wrote:
Oh no, not again, same old, same old, fighting over who gets the leg of the chicken. I'm 62 years of age and have seen the same people come along over the years and try to fluck it up usually for younger people that have come into the sport and have put a lot of time and effort on committees, negotiating and being involved in and promoted OUR sport Nationally and Internationally. Just to be flucked over by the auld boy's that want to stay at the big Table, from reading whats going on Boards.ie, people in the shooting fraternity need to cop on, in my opinion M H, has been badly treated by people that should be put out to pasture. I'm too old and gone beyond caring what I say and if I upset people that don't care about our shooting sports, fluck them and if I can't say it here there a lot more forums that I can say it on.


Attachment:
24061_cmon+bump+it.jpg
24061_cmon+bump+it.jpg [ 7.13 KiB | Viewed 2089 times ]


18 Dec 2017 11:44
Profile

Joined: 07 Jan 2013 10:12
Posts: 133
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
brush it under the carpet examining got reloading the usual delay once the firearm review began . EU results in from their working group of experts advocate hand loading and reloading ammunition "will remain permitted" ignore long in the tooth old boys napping on the job
http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-conte ... r-2014.pdf
That the reloading of ammunition be permitted in a controlled manner.
Again, there is no objection to re-loading being carried out in a controlled manner.
However, the level of control needs to be such that it does not in effect "act as an unreasonable obstacle" and the conditions under which it takes place should be agreed with the relevant shooting interests.


18 Dec 2017 13:43
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
It's like they put the fox in charge of the hen house, believing he'll eat an obstacle :mrgreen:


18 Dec 2017 22:21
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1710
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
So true...
Quote:
I have consulted in this regard and the (DoJ) advice I have received is that the amount of material involved in reloading is quite small and that in some instances, for some people, the most secure place for them to have this equipment is at home rather than in some business premises.
Former Justice Minister, Michael McDowell
?


19 Dec 2017 14:09
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
IN THE BULL wrote:
brush it under the carpet examining got reloading the usual delay once the firearm review began . EU results in from their working group of experts advocate hand loading and reloading ammunition "will remain permitted" ignore long in the tooth old boys napping on the job

http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-conte ... r-2014.pdf
That the reloading of ammunition be permitted in a controlled manner.
Again, there is no objection to re-loading being carried out in a controlled manner.
However, the level of control needs to be such that it does not in effect "act as an unreasonable obstacle" and the conditions under which it takes place should be agreed with the relevant shooting interests.


As I'm sure you've gathered the coalition's on a roll, crucial for the reloader :mrgreen:
http://www.sportscoalition.org/home/updates-news/ https://descroftonconsulting.com/#top


30 Dec 2017 22:58
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1710
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
We were happy to send & share on request with other people, sport shooting bodies and associations, our submission to the Dail Justice committee - also included was a submission on the proposal to expand reloading in Ireland - for what is an integral part for the review of firearms, first announced back in 2014 - by former minister for justice, Minster, Alan Shatter.
Attachment:


Surprising to learn many years later the lack of interest shown towards the 'original DoJ reloading appeal' for interested parties to send submissions. While we did receive an acknowledgment for our effort - sadly there was no invitation to discuss. Many members at that time used ranges at some of the premier shooting establishments in this country - it was never considered a barrier for ordinary members of the sport not to have put the best foot forward and offer an opinion.. As to the question with regard to the suitable credentials of individuals - an interesting topic, won and proven, on factually incorrect info....
Circa 2009 - original DoJ request for sending reloading submissions:
Attachment:
Reloading pdf Submission to the DoJ. mk 2 doc.pdf [97.35 KiB]
Downloaded 63 times


Evidence if it was ever needed - see below - simple style reloading taking place before an International F-Class match at Bisley. In the open folks, outside the period living quarters, using the top of a little portable table. Spanish lads sit and begin the easy process of throwing small scoop-measures of propellant on to the miniature scales, directly from an OPEN flat container of loose smokeless propellant. The extent of reloading equipment necessary to reload before an international F-Cass competition.....live and learn.

BISLEY SHOOTING CENTER UK
F-Class international teams - Reloading Ammunition in the open at world famous Bisley Ranges Watch - 4:10 / 4:38
http://youtu.be/seEV23eRB7A

1st Place IRELAND F/TR 1000 yards (2011)
http://youtu.be/seEV23eRB7A 25:33

Attachment:
Bench reloading in the open at Bisley.jpg
Bench reloading in the open at Bisley.jpg [ 80.19 KiB | Viewed 1833 times ]

Attachment:
F-Class reloading taking place outside the camper van in the open at Bisley.jpg
F-Class reloading taking place outside the camper van in the open at Bisley.jpg [ 89.63 KiB | Viewed 1833 times ]

Attachment:
the extent of reloading equipement needed for international F-Class.jpg
the extent of reloading equipement needed for international F-Class.jpg [ 63.5 KiB | Viewed 1833 times ]


01 Jan 2018 16:44
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1775
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Indeed, it is a document that I helped to formulate and to write, one of my very first inputs into the VCRAI.

As Blackadder relates, receipt of our proposal was acknowledged, but after that, there was nothing but silence.

We were NOT left out of the process, we WERE ignored.

Please note that at the time of writing, there were no set-aside areas on UK ranges for reloading of ammunition on the spot. Almost within days of the submission, this had changed, and there are now several ranges where this part of the shooting process can be carried out on the spot. As I mentioned before, I reload out of the back of my minivan, about ten yards away from the shooting line...others actually carry out the process on a bench just behind the line, as I've posted in a photo a while back. That way we can shoot a load and chrono it, and then try another variation on the same load and do it it all over - right there.

Read about once such facility - Minsterley Ranges, about 17 miles SW of Shrewsbury in a glorious setting of rolling hills -

Minsterley Ranges is a privately owned 16 acre shooting complex located in the most breath-taking Shropshire countryside, approximately 17 miles South-West of Shrewsbury. Fairly centrally located, we welcome visitors from all over the UK.
We offer a wide range of facilities and activities for anybody interested in the shooting sports. Whilst we have a large membership, we are very keen to welcome visitors and guests and are generally open to the public. You do not have to be a member to come here!

Whether you are a shooting person or not we are sure that you will find Minsterley Ranges an interesting place to visit and you will be made most Come and spend a relaxing day out in a friendly atmosphere.welcome. Come and spend a relaxing day out in a friendly atmosphere. We welcome beginners and those who are simply curious and would like to come along and be nosey! Families and children are also very welcome.

Minsterley Ranges incorporates "Brookshill Shooting Club" which is Home Office Approved. Membership of the Club allows you to apply for a Firearm Certificate for the purposes of target shooting.

There is a large log cabin style club room and gun shop. Minsterley is run by shooters for shooters and unlike many gun shops the staff are all keen and experienced shooters with a wealth of practical knowledge in various specialist fields.

The Rifle Ranges: We have three rifle shooting ranges. The 100 metre range has 15 firing points, all with proper concrete shooting benches, covered firing points and a reloading room to the rear. It is generally regarded as the finest Benchrest shooting range in the country. There are two further 50 metre ranges with covered firing points and one of them has an electronic running boar target facility.

The Clay Ground has three mixed sporting layouts, equipped with electronic traps.Practical Shotgun Range

We also have a Practical Shotgun Range and run regular open shoots for veterans and beginners alike. All are welcome.

People come to visit us from all over the UK & Europe. There are lots of local Bed & Breakfast places available to stay in, close to the ranges. Please phone us for more information.

Our mission
"It is our wish to make Minsterley Ranges the best facility of its kind in the UK. We are dedicated to your enjoyment."

Since David & Mari Ryan took over in February 2001 they have invested a huge amount of time and money into improving the breadth and quality of the infrastructure of the site and the range of services available to all the members and visitor alike.


tac


02 Jan 2018 10:50
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1710
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Minsterly ranges....go back to the first page of this thread and scroll down where you will find Ian tending his reloading shed, part of the 16 acre shooting complex viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2221

Quote:
"Note the heavy bunker construction here at minsterly ranges for a two days of very comprehensive load deveolpement and evaluation of all our rifles."

Regards Ian

Attachment:
Reloading-Components.jpg
Reloading-Components.jpg [ 58.71 KiB | Viewed 1806 times ]


Let us put together a full kit of reloading equipment to suit your specific requirements. We can offer one to one training so that you will at least have the basics for safe reloading and our range of reloading books also offer clear informative instruction.
http://shootingsuppliesltd.co.uk/reloading/

For example - During 2011, over 510 licence applications for the importation of explosives (including commercial explosives, deemed substances and fireworks) were processed.
Alan Shatter, TD
Minister for Justice and Equality

Convoluted history... example worth the time taking on board....
The special - C-49 explosives license - try ask the super to issue this form if still available....https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthr ... 2055255567

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthr ... 2055960093

The proposal to introduce 'three methods' of reloading ammunition in Ireland ( ...go back to the first page scroll down where you will find the Working Group _ 'proposal' for expanding the reloading scheme'

Justice and 'Equality' / equal rights - when civil servants at the dep of explosives bring to the minister the document ready to sign - having concluded talks with relevant stakeholders - represented by members of the FCP -(hopefully infighting has ended...) it is expected naturally that some progress has been made for expanding on the reloading possibilities - to permit other suitable persons licensed for firearms, also reload ammunition.

Over the past 7 years reloading of ammunition has taken place at one authorised range, without the premises catching fire and blowing up...reasonable then to assume, sinse the review of firearms began that the reloading proposal should see the light of day in the form of an issued report for what is an integral part of the review of firearms 2014...


03 Jan 2018 15:04
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1775
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
All this b******s about reloading is like requiring to set up a bunkered and guarded laboratory in order to put fuel in your car. That process is FAR more dangerous than reloading, as many have proved over the years.

I really do NOT see what all the fuss is about - never did.

The problem stems from the fact that when the Explosives regulations were first written, there was nothing else other than Black Powder in existence.

The intervening 130 years might as well never have happened.

tac


04 Jan 2018 10:48
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1710
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
...bamboozled by bad science tac. Your analogy of the petrol tanker on Irish roads fully loaded with highly inflammable hazardous materials a known explosive when vaporised in a confined space....strikes the primer. On the transport of dangerous substances the tanker does not need a Garda escort - or ever likely to envisage where and when an RFD in the future is to transport a small purchase of Class 1.3 material - UN recommendations on the transport of dangerous goods of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC)/ - Hazmat goods in short.

There are in the region of between 500 and 600 applications for the importation of explosives processed on average each year. Imported and delivered by approved carriers to: licensed factory or magazine,; a Store (licensed by the local authority) or; a Premises Registered for keeping explosives. Guidance Documents. For guidance relating to storage requirements, safety measures etc http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/storing_explosives

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/storing_explosives

Quote:
25kg of propellant represents 55 POUNDS weight of propellant.
In American containers, that's 55 actual containers of propellant.
WTH would ANY one person actually NEED fifty-five cans of propellant powder for?
Setting aside the fact that it represents, here in UK, a financial outlay seriously north of £2500 at the very least.... €3000 euro

tac


Storage of Ammunition and Propellant Powder
A registered firearms dealer needs to have either a registered premises or a local authority store to keep his stocks of ammunition...and 'Propellant Powder'

Mode B: A substantial receptacle or safe inside a dwelling house or public room. The general limit is 50 lbs of mixed explosives or double this if kept in a fireproof safe, and in addition, 500 lbs of small arms ammunition (or 550 lbs if small arms ammunition only).

Most firearm dealers selling ammunition have at the very least operate under mode B registered premises

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/StorageOfAmmunition


Code:
1. Is ammunition and/or propellant powder classed as an explosive?

Yes, ammunition and propellant powder are both classified as explosives under the Explosives Act 1875.  The Explosives Act 1875 is currently being updated.


2. Is a licence required to store ammunition or powder?

That depends on the quantity stored.  There are two relevant levels of storage authorised under the Explosives Act:

Registered Premises; i.e. a premises registered each year with the local authority to store explosives.  This term is not to be confused with "registered firearms dealer" (See Q3 below).  There are two subdivisions of registered premises called Mode A and Mode B (See Q4 below)
Local Authority Stores; i.e. a store licensed by the local authority to store explosives (See Q5 below).
3. Is a registered firearms dealer required to have authorised storage for ammunition?

Yes, it is sometimes wrongly assumed that being a registered firearms dealer (under the Firearms Acts) automatically means that the premises is also registered for storage under the Explosives Act when, in fact, this is separate legislation.  A registered firearms dealer needs to have either a registered premises or a local authority store to keep his stocks of ammunition.

(6) Where a store contains different hazard types of explosives, the explosives shall be treated as belonging to the hazard type which would require the greatest separation distance for the total quantity of the explosives, and the separation distance shall be determined in relation to that quantity.
(7) Subject to paragraph (8), separation distances do not apply in relation
to—
(a) a store holding a quantity[b] not exceeding 25 kilograms[/b] of explosives of
hazard type 4, or
(b) a store holding a quantity not exceeding 2000 kilograms of small
arms ammunition.
(8) Paragraph (7) applies to a store only where—
(a) there is at least a one-hour fire resistance between any storage room
and an adjoining room or passage,
(b) adequate fire-fighting facilities and access for emergency services are
provided, and
(c) if the store is within or adjoins a building containing accommodation
used for domestic or residential purposes—
(i) the accommodation is separate from the store,
(ii) access and exit routes, which are fire-separated from the store,
are provided for the accommodation,
(iii) there is at least a one-hour fire resistance between the accommodation
and the store, and
(iv) unauthorised access from the accommodation to the store is
prevented.
(9) In this Article “fireworks” means explosives articles numbered UN No.
0033, 0034, 0035, 0036 or 0037.
Special provision in relation to storage of controlled substances not exceeding
50,000 kg.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... 01_to_0100

Quote:
The Chairperson circa 2008...He noted that if reloading is to be accepted in Ireland the structures must be right. He observed that the main issue is the lackadaisical approach to home storage and a failure of some enthusiasts to appreciate the risks.


An interesting statement to make when the DoJ at the time had not given approval for the reloading of ammunition in Ireland. How could the former chairperson know or for that matter, assume paddy takes a lackadaisical approach for something he could not do, at that time.?
Only possibly those granted the special C-49 explosive importation license and RFDs, who apparently remain to this day in the safe position of being able to reload and import ammunition and powder and primers. And logically they should be able to take for example - a small tub of powder and primers to the range, if they happen to own one.....very odd convoluted history.


04 Jan 2018 16:07
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 09:03
Posts: 2284
 Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Good to see this coming back on the agenda. ;) ;) ;)


Last edited by Sikamick on 12 Jan 2018 00:44, edited 2 times in total.



05 Jan 2018 01:19
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Certificate (C 49) Licence to import Explosives NOT subject to S.I. 423 of 2016
Authorised explosive, for any industrial, agricultural, sporting or other special purpose, (as specified on the certificate). The certificate is valid for up to one year from date of issue. This certificate is known in the Garda Siochana as a “C49” form.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=ie

11 :mrgreen: It's about who you know in the republic http://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/10- ... w-10339226


05 Jan 2018 14:15
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 09:03
Posts: 2284
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
+1 SMLE 303. I'ts simple, i'ts not rocket science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibBrpUO39RE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zSG804HwVk


12 Jan 2018 00:00
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1013
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
nice one, keep on hopin we'll eat cake by the ocean ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWaRiD5 ... e=youtu.be


12 Jan 2018 09:44
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Be careful benny sand doesn't enter your flash hole :mrgreen:


12 Jan 2018 17:50
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1013
Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
johnny got it covered :lol: :lol:
SMLE 303 wrote:
[ As I'm sure you've gathered the coalition's on a roll, crucial for the reloader :mrgreen:
http://www.sportscoalition.org/home/updates-news/ https://descroftonconsulting.com/#top

Attachment:
66288651.jpg
66288651.jpg [ 66.95 KiB | Viewed 1285 times ]

https://youtu.be/BuYwLsxxcUI


11 Feb 2018 18:30
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
You are visiting from Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software.