View unanswered posts | View active topics Use Active Topics to see the latest post to this Forum, Just Register on the forum and login in to leave comments and opinions. It is currently 20 May 2019 15:25
You are visiting from

Forum rules


NOTICE: Access to use the complete VCRAI forum requires registration to the site.To view Vintage & Classic Rifles / Pistols / Tips and any other new subject matter added at some later stage, you must be a fully signed up member. Posts and Comments can be transferred or deleted! All welcome.



Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Reloading with Rosie..... 
Author Message

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1783
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Reloading with Rosie.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kitp0Fwd7ow&t=67s

You need to be sat down.

tac


19 Mar 2018 12:45
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 335
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
I assume proof the expert committee can't ignore facts or they might well suggest Elvis faked his own death :mrgreen: https://youtu.be/kOGkmoijhYI


19 Mar 2018 22:08
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1739
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
What about unenforced law that is usually ignored at Halloween?
The FCP had years to report on the 2014 review of firearms, to include, their review proposal for expanding on the 2011 pilot scheme that granted reloading ammunition at one specific authorised range in Ireland. To think so many young people disregard the law on fireworks, loaded with a charge of black powder, an explosive - that they ignore it without fear, because generally, it is not enforced. Meanwhile south of the border, safe smokeless propellant, remains out of reach to the majority of already vetted and approved licensed members of the shooting community. What is the use having sporting representatives that take four years to deliver on an advancement for upgrading the old gunpower explosive act of 1875.

"Emergency services impacted by rise in illegal fireworks"

Morning Ireland RTE Radio 1 - 22/10/2018

https://rte.ie/r.html?rii=b9_21451362_48_22-10-2018_

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/10 ... fireworks/


Interview with Newry Fireworks Specialist, just a few feet over the border in northern Ireland. Thomas McKevitt, who owns the Firework Specialist store in Newry, said the laws in Ireland are leading to sales on the black market. Under Part 6 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006, which amended the Explosives Act 1875, the Gardaí have the power to make arrests in relation to possession of unlicensed fireworks. https://www.facebook.com/NewryFireworksSpecialist/



Ireland, quote:"It is the only country in Europe that doesn't sell fireworks over the counter. It is totally ridiculous. They have criminalised them for no apparent reason."

'Illegal trade trade in fireworks in Ireland are growing by the year that saw the largest amount of firework seizures in five years occurred in 2017. Ireland has some of the most restrictive fireworks laws across the EU, yet the illegal trade is booming'

According to the firework specialiasts, black market fireworks in southern Ireland can be stored loose in back garden sheds. This can cause the black powder in the firework to become damp, effecting ignition with the possibility of premature detonation from the powder drying unevenly. He called for firework specialists to be able to sell tested fireworks that comply with the relevant CE mark that show that the firework meets European safety standards, which all fireworks must meet, similar to how N.Ireland's, dep of justice explosive branch, issue an 'outdoor fireworks license' to members of the 'general public', rather than see the illegal trade in fireworks keep growing from imported non-CE marked sources that can be dangerous to use.

In Ireland Fireworks in all categories other than indoor fireworks are more dangerous and can only be used by professional operators in organised displays, not by the general public. These fireworks include rockets, roman candles and aerial wheels. If you want to organise a display of this type of fireworks, you must use a professional fireworks operator.

Bangers are not in Category F1 and it is illegal for the general public to import, possess or use them.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Explosives (Fireworks) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002 as amended by the Pyrotechnic Articles (Safety) Regulations 2015
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/defau ... icence.pdf

Application for a licence to purchase, possess and use Category F2 fireworks (outdoor fireworks!)

Explanatory Notes
Please read these notes carefully and retain them for your information
• A licence is not required if you want to purchase, possess and use fireworks classified under category F1 (suitable for indoor use) or sparklers classified under Category F2 (suitable for use in the average garden). You must have a licence before you can purchase, possess and use any other type of fireworks – that is, those classified under categories F2, F3 or F4 of Schedule 1 of the Pyrotechnic Articles (Safety) Regulations 2015. There is a separate application form for category F3 and F4 fireworks.
• The applicant is normally the person purchasing, possessing and using the fireworks.
• The licence is only valid for the period stated on it.
• We will not normally issue a licence for fireworks to be used between 11pm and 7am

Where the number of persons at your fireworks display will be:
• Fewer than 100, the fee is £30.
• 100 or more but fewer than 1000, the fee is £80.
• More than 1000, the fee is £160.


22 Oct 2018 13:04
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1017
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
they arguing again over who made the mess in the kitchen, either go big or go home :lol:   https://www.facebook.com/PneuFCP/

Attachment:
giphy.gif
giphy.gif [ 491.38 KiB | Viewed 1316 times ]


06 Nov 2018 23:15
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 335
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
Understand wer ur cumim from : It depends on who's driving the implementation and whether they're guided by sidekicks feathering their nest opposed to sharing it with Rosie :mrgreen:


02 Jan 2019 17:51
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1017
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
she's the man, cant get of enough of a good thing :shock:

Attachment:
think-big_1478769615.jpg
think-big_1478769615.jpg [ 53.92 KiB | Viewed 1166 times ]


04 Jan 2019 12:53
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 335
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
Can't get enough ammo. In case of supply chain postponement place orders on time before Brexit day 29 March, 2019 :mrgreen: https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets ... asting.pdf


18 Jan 2019 14:01
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1739
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
bunny shooter wrote:
Blackadder wrote:
............Meanwhile, the FCP play their cards close to their chests for tactical reasons most likely. The list of concerns included on the agenda are proposals for the wider availability of reloading, with the prospect of WTO trade deals being applied in the near future, it would be a practical consideration for the representatives to consider wisely!


Are you saying reloading is currently being discussed by FCP?

Considering the current reloading situation and that the same "players" are on the FCP, who are mostly commercial entities, I do not expect it to be any major advantage to ordinary shooters unless the shooting groups on FCP can make money from us above & beyond the actual costs e.g. spurious courses & memberships ! Being somewhat blunt, there are likely to be some who will once again ensure they have a monopoly on whatever, if anything, above what's there already, is/might be allowed !

We are going to be gouged on prices for all our equipment regardless off any actual rise in purchase costs and the excuse will be "Brexit".........................


If it is not already discussed then it ought to be whenever the FCP become engaged again with the process ?

Reloading has been on the agenda long before the 2014 review. It is an integral part of the ongoing rolling review that make specific reference to the '2009 lacuna in the law' and to do with reloading imperative to make an amendment to the Explosives Act 1875!

Back in 2014, the concerns of An Garda Síochána regarding public safety, and that of certain types of legal firearms was brought to the attention of the Department of Justice and Equality Working Group on Review of Firearms Licensing Report of November 2014

This has long since past the urgency test.

Since 2015 the FCP were partially grounded except for protracted spells of reported infighting and goings-on between various representative groups. Any small progressive steps needed to develop sport shooting never manage to evolve past the narrow gaze of commercial interests. As ever the actual real concern are for the arsenal of illegally imported high-powered military grade weapons widely available to wealthy criminal gangs.

An amendment to the Explosives Act 1875 which allows for the reloading of ammunition in specific circumstances is also recommended.
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2014.WG.R ... Report.pdf

This provision is now being introduced to address a lacuna in the law where provisions in the Criminal Justice Act 2006 to allow for the reloading of ammunition were repealed (without being commenced) in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009.

No provision was made in 2009 for simultaneous clarification of the existing provisions in the Explosives Act 1875 which permit individuals to legally keep or store a large quantity of gunpowder (30 lbs) for private use without an application for a licence for registration from the local authority.


1. Concerns of An Garda Síochána regarding public safety, and the following firearms:
A- centre-fire handguns
B- rim-fire handguns
C- semi-automatic centre-fire rifles
D- semi-automatic shotguns


2. Current legislative provisions of concern with particular reference to:
A- Restricted Firearms Statutory Instruments (SI’s) SI 21 of 2008 and SI 337 of 2009
B- District Court appeals of refused licence applications
C- Restrictions on handguns announced in 2008 and partial ban on
handguns implemented in 2009
D- Grounds to grant/refuse an application for a firearms certificate,
and the appeal mechanism
E. Provisions governing persons disentitled to hold a firearms
certificate

A provision in relation to the reloading of ammunition was also examined.

Proposals to enable Ireland to give effect to the UN Firearms Protocol are also recommended (UN Protocol Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking In Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition), as are the repeal of certain provisions of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009.

3. A Communication of 21 October 2013 from the European Commission to the Council and the European Parliament, entitled; Firearms and the internal security of the EU: protecting citizens and disrupting illegal trafficking.

4. Legislative provisions in other jurisdictions including the UK.
5. Legal advices from 2009 to 2014.
6. Discussions with the National Association of Sporting Rifle and Pistol Clubs (NASRPC) the National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC) and the National Target Shooting Association (NTSA).

Key issues raised in written communications from interest groups, including submissions issued jointly by the NARGC, NASRPC, the Irish Firearms Dealers Association, the Range Operators Association of Ireland and other groups.

Correspondence received from the Long Range Rifle Association,
Countryside Alliance Ireland and the Wild Deer Association of Ireland.

7. Garda system of delegated authority, advisory roles and the Garda
Commissioner’s Guidelines as to the Practical Application and Operation of the Firearms Acts, 1925-2009.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality díospóireacht -
Dé Céadaoin, 21 Ean 2015


https://www.oireachtas.ie/ga/debates/de ... 5-01-21/2/

In light of public safety concerns highlighted by An Garda Síochána, a joint Department of Justice and Equality/An Garda Síochána Working Group was established by the Department of Justice and Equality to review firearms licensing.

The report of this Working Group was published on 13 November 2014 and submissions on the report were sought from stakeholders and the public by 31 January 2015.

The consultation process gave individuals and groups an opportunity to contribute to the development of firearms policy and legislation and will enable consideration to be given to the future direction of such legislation.


Mr. Damien Hannigan secretary of the Wild Deer Association of Ireland.

If we look to other examples of firearms legislation, we can receive guidance on what is effective for both the responsible sporting shooters and public safety. Northern Ireland has some of the strictest gun licensing laws but the use of handguns and the reloading of ammunition in a private residence are licensed without negative consequences for public safety or an increase in criminal activity.


The Explosives Act 1875 is currently being updated ?
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/StorageOfAmmunition


05 Feb 2019 21:56
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1739
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
SMLE 303 wrote:
Understand wer ur cumim from : It depends on who's driving the implementation and whether they're guided by sidekicks feathering their nest opposed to sharing it with Rosie :mrgreen:


Are you disappointed to see how little has changed over the years?

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/GD%202010 ... 202014.pdf

Lacuna discovered in the Explosives Act, 1875. Aka the grey area at the back of a damp cell.


The existing provisions in the Explosives Act 1875 which permit individuals to legally keep or store inside a dwelling house a large quantity of gunpowder (30 lbs) for private use "without an application for a licence for registration from the local authority."

Available for an unknown number of private individuals who applied to legally store mixed propellant using the C 49 form as a license to reload ammunition in Ireland.

Across the EU/UK/Northern Ireland, Nitro-Cellulose (UN hazard type 3) Shooters Propellant, which is not a relevant explosive is purchased without an explosives license. There is no separation distance for storing less than 15kg of powder which can be kept at home with no licence necessary by individuals with a suitable firearm certificate.

In Ireland Registered Firearms Dealer under Mode B regulations could use the existing law to apply to import mixed explosives to store inside a dwelling house or public room....gun shop armory.

To initially begin the process registered firearms dealers with Mode B approval, might be used for delivering and collecting, small amounts of propellant and primers to approved target shooting ranges for members licensed with a suitable firearm to learn how to safely reload ammunition. The whole process done under the eagle-eyed supervision of reloading mentors on the sheltered range shooting benches, that are safely exposed to open-air ventilation circulating down the line. Eventually, all going well, the granting to members the choice of taking back to his or her dwelling house a small tub or two of powder and primers.

An average of 510 licence applications for the importation of explosives (including commercial explosives, deemed substances and fireworks) were processed.
Quote: Former, Justice Minister Alan Shatter, 2011

Mode B: Registered Irish Firearms Dealer
A substantial receptacle or safe inside a dwelling house or public room. The general limit is 50 lbs of mixed explosives or double this if kept in a fireproof safe, and in addition, 500 lbs of small arms ammunition (or 550 lbs if small arms ammunition only).

The explosive branch of the DoJ (ex-army x 2 ) suspected of knowing little or nothing to do with the reloading of sport shooting ammunition. But, there are a few explosive experts on tap with a number of individual FCP stakeholders having the accumulated reloading credentials in the expert positions of backing support for new proposals that would make reloading ammunition more widely available. HSE regulations are for the storage of 'commercial amounts of mixed explosive'. New explosive regulations need to regulate down for accommodating 'small amounts to permit individuals' legally keep or store inside a shooting range and/or inside a dwelling house with NO separation distance to copy HSE conditions similar to the UK/EU – storing less than 15kg of mixed shooters propellant and primers. (Free license to possess Black Powder )


21 Feb 2019 14:17
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1739
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
Mode B: Registered Irish Firearms Dealer
Rev 20 October 2015
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Form%20RP1%20(Registered%20Premises%20-%20other%20than%20Category%201%20fireworks)%2020%20Oct%202015.pdf/Files/Form%20RP1%20(Registered%20Premises%20-%20other%20than%20Category%201%20fireworks)%2020%20Oct%202015.pdf

In the Explosives Act 1875 the maximum fee is set at one shilling which converts to approx €6 in current terms. ;)

4. Explosives other than SAA and Pyrotechnics: Storage of small amounts of explosives other than SAA and pyrotechnics is permitted in Registered Premises under Modes A and B. However to ensure that current best practice for such explosive storage is followed, the local authority should consult a Government Inspector of Explosives for advice prior to registration or renewal.


5. Larger quantities: Note that for storage of larger quantities of explosives, a local authority store is required in accordance Sections 15-20 of Explosives Act and the Stores for Explosives Order 2007 - S.I. No. 804 of 2007. The Application Form and copy of the Stores Order is available on DJE website http://www.justice.ie .


27 Feb 2019 21:04
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1739
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
SMLE 303 wrote:
How bad does it need to get for dealers before it's a mater of life and death? When it comes to the trade there are no substitute for earning a crust deal or no deal :mrgreen:


Wonder why so many firearm dealer went to the wall. Reloading is an essential part and parcel requirement for the sport across the EU, why would Ireland be the exception...Since 2002 there was a staggering 50% drop in the RFDs/Premises. The north of Ireland comprising of the six counties have twice the number of handgun and 300-600 meter centerfire ranges, helping RFDs stay open!

No one appears to knows what position the FCP have on the matter of reloading should they vote to disrupt the status quo. Joining the dots, the evidence is widely available (below) to come up with a winning result!

In summary the 2014 review to do with the reloading of ammunition with the published DoJ proposal for a wider availability, to include, greater number of licensed individuals with suitable firearms to legally reload ammunition than the current position, clamped at forty granted special permission. After eight years of trials and heavy testing the FCP would of concluded by now on the 'DoJs own proposal' for expanding reloading or they should except failure at the results to develop what are basic requirements for sport shooting in Ireland. To allow it run on, as is, turns the existing pilot into a glorified provisional license scheme for keeping reloading fixed at one premises.


"In light of public safety concerns if we look to other examples of firearms legislation, we can receive guidance on what is effective for both the responsible sporting shooters and public safety. Northern Ireland has some of the strictest gun licensing laws but the use of handguns and the reloading of ammunition in a private residence are licensed without negative consequences for public safety or an increase in criminal activity" Quote: Wild Deer Association of Ireland.

If we look at over 510 licence applications granted by the explosive branch for the importation of explosives each year...

Mode B: Registered Irish Firearms Dealers can under the current explosives act 1875 store a substantial amount of propellant inside a dwelling house (RFDs own residence)

That on the best of international advice from HSE-Uk laboratories and EU expert testing labs for explosives, etc ) with results available to HSA Ireland. Individuals across the EU are deemed safe to store at home an average of between 3-10kgs of mixed propellant without the sky falling-in. The regulations are available without a trace of over the top heath & safety conditions and no separation distance necessary for small amounts of mixed shooters propellant and primers. The FCP should be able to recall former minister for justice opinion on small amounts of powders having no public safety concerns to worry the former justice minister in 2006 ( 'at the height of gangland gun crime') on the advice he was given obviously by his DoJ/Explosive Branch/others/useful sporting contacts..

Quote the minister for justice: "The amendment proposes to narrow down further what is provided for in section 10A(3)(e), which states: “the premises where the reloading is to take place are sufficiently safe and secure for that purpose”.

"I have consulted in this regard and the advice I have received is that the amount of material involved in reloading is quite small and that in some instances, for some people, the most secure place for them to have this equipment is at home rather than in some business premises". Justice Minister McDowell. (2006)

It was rumored on the grape vine certain commercial entities and players were suspected in the past of objecting to reloading. It must of been a lack of understand of the benefits reloading brings to both sport and trade. As for so called other concerns that felt reloading was for experts in reloading .....only in little ol' Ireland.


16 Mar 2019 19:56
Profile

Joined: 07 Jan 2013 10:12
Posts: 144
Post Re: Reloading with Rosie.....
Re The Working Group Proposal
Sports Coalition.http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-conte ... r-2014.pdf
That the reloading of ammunition be permitted in a controlled manner.
Again, there is no objection to re-loading being carried out in a controlled manner.
However, the level of control needs to be such that it does not in effect act as an unreasonable obstacle and the conditions under which it takes place should be agreed with the relevant shooting interests.


19 Mar 2019 10:13
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 12 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
You are visiting from Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software.