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Licensing issues here in UK.. 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Licensing issues here in UK...
Here in UK,

1. You join a gun-club that does the kind of shooting that you think will appeal to you. There are NO ranges that do not have gun-clubs, and NO gun-clubs who do not have ranges. EVERY range in the country is an official government-sanctioned range, and EVERY gun-club is part of the National Rifle Association or National Small-bore Rifle Association. So every member of every gun-club right from the start is also a member of either or both of these two national associations, by association. That's the insurance thing settled.

2. You serve a six-month probationary time, during which you learn all about shooting lots of different guns and disciplines by shooting lots of different guns and taking part in different disciplines. You can buy ammunition at the club, but you cannot take it away with you. You can, if you wish, take empties away for future use when you get your FAC - here in UK, and in the rest of the world, an empty cartridge case is a piece of brass with a hole in one end, and no kind of live round. The only guns you cannot shoot are shotguns that shoot more than three rounds, or any shotgun firing slugs, or any kind of long-barrelled handgun of the kind permitted on mainland UK. Northern Ireland does NOT subscribe to this, BTW, and you can shoot anything that another club member puts in your hand.

3. During this time, you are, of course, being watched like a hawk for anything odd that might give people cause for concern about your suitability to own firearms of any kind.

4. You are tested, at least twice, on safety and safe handling and general knowledge on the firearms scene.

5. At the end of the six months, the secretary tells you that you have done just fine, and to go ahead and fill out your application for a firearms certificate - the FAC - on which you may ask for the guns that you think that you would like to shoot. This is usually a .22 rimfire, a .223 centre-fire, maybe a .308Win, maybe a 38/357 or .44/44 underlever rifle or carbine or any kind of black powder firearm or rifle, carbine or handgun. You also ask for as much ammunition for each gun that you think that you will need at any one time. You provide two referees, and give permission for the licensing authority to ASK your GP if you are a drugee or eplileptic. Note that you will have made a declaration to the fact that you are NOT a drugee or epileptic, nor in the habit of taking mind-altering meds etc, in the body of the FAC application form. Lying about this will get you 3 - 5 years pokey, as the application form is, in UK legal terms, a sworn document.

6. You buy and fit a suitable safe - they are ALL made here in UK, even the ones that you buy in Ireland - they are all of the same standard. Nothing else is permitted. The Firearms Enquiries Officer [a civilian]comes around for coffee and biscuits, finds that you are what you say you are, checks out your safe, mentally agrees with your referees, shakes your hand and bids you good day.

7. Your FAC plops into your mail box a couple of weeks later, and off you go to the gun dealer to spend all your money on guns, and, if you want to give it a try, any and all reloading gear to get you started making your own ammunition, like 90% of all other shooters do here.

8. After a while, you give another discipline a try and find that it takes your interest, so you apply for a variation to your FAC for another firearm of the type you wish to shoot. It costs £40 to do this, but if you wait until renewal time, it's free. Same if you wish to swap out same calibre guns on a one-for-one basis.

9. Your FAC lasts five years and costs, ATM, £60. Renewing it does not require you to justify your reasons all over again - you've already done that over the previous five years, and, in any case, anything aberrant that might cause concern has been notified to the licensing authority by the club secretary...

As with most things, the more you do, the more you learn, and you improve as you get more familiar with your guns. There are always club coaches, like me an NRA coach and British Disabled Shooting Association instructor, to help and advise, and the opportunity for you to put something back into the club by doing an RCO course, like almost 30% of our 300+ membership has already done.

Please note - having been asked how much all this mentoring and instruction and advice costs the noob, the answer is that it costs nothing at all. He/she is the learner, we the experienced, are the teachers.

Extra-curricular courses like a the one-day reloading intro course run by the NRA, or the British Deer Society courses are paid for by the attendant. In our club we usually wait until there is a good handful - maybe ten - to do the NRA RCO qualification course, then we get the guy from Bisley to come up here to us, deliver the course, set the test, and qualify us.

Hope this is useful.

tac


16 Apr 2015 13:20
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
practical a pistol, nice a one bisley :shock:

https://youtu.be/XrysVnnmKXE


05 Jun 2015 13:37
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
An hour from Dublin

Recently published update of the guidelines

Guide on Firearms Licensing Law
April 2016 (UK)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 16_v20.pdf

Quote:
Overseas use
13.35 Individuals going overseas may wish to hunt animals not found in this country and wish to acquire firearms for this purpose. This may include, for example, big game or dangerous game animals such as elephant, Cape buffalo, lion or leopard; or plains game, such as various species of antelope.
13.36 Rifles for this purpose may include bolt-action or double-barrelled rifles of various calibres, often very large and of high (4,000-5,000 foot pounds) muzzle energies. These might include .375 H&H Magnum for Plains Game, calibres between .375 H&H Magnum and .600 for Big Game, .300 Winchester or greater for bear, and 9.3mm x 74R for boar

The police will wish to be satisfied that an applicant has genuine intentions to use such rifles abroad, though such visits may be infrequent. Zeroing and practicing with non-expanding ammunition may be permitted in the UK, providing a suitable range or land is available. Those who home-load their non-expanding ammunition for such zeroing will also need to test and chronograph it. Some rifles intended for antelope and other plains game may also be suitable for deer, boar or other quarry shooting in this country. Once initial “good reason” has been established for a rifle in shooting “dangerous game”, it may also be considered for shooting the larger deer species and boar in Britain. Expanding ammunition may (must in the case of deer) also be authorised for an applicant whose certificate allows for the rifle also to be used for shooting deer or boar in Britain. Where a shooter experiences difficulties in obtaining “dangerous game” cartridges in the country where that game is to be hunted, arrangements can be made for a dealer to export an appropriate quantity which can be collected by the shooter at the point of embarkation. Individuals may be authorised expanding or non-expanding ammunition in line with typical amounts authorised for use in firearms for target and quarry shooting.

13.38 The humane killing of sick, injured or lawfully trapped animals with a firearm is normally confined to those who may deal with such animals on a fairly regular basis. Examples would include veterinary surgeons, RSPCA inspectors, hunt servants, and occupiers of farms and smallholdings. Once such a firearm certificate is granted, the holder is able to use the firearm for the humane killing of any animal should the need arise, subject to any conditions on the certificate. The holder may also use a shotgun when appropriate. Rifles of any centrefire calibre may be suitable for this work. For revolvers and slaughtering instruments under section 3 of the 1997 Act, it is suggested a .32 single (or two) shot revolver is suitable for most circumstances, though larger calibres such as the .38 may be considered if the applicant has to deal regularly with large or dangerous animals (for the humane slaughter of animals.)

Old firearms which should benefit from exemption as antiques

8.9. Pre-1939 firearms to benefit from exemption as antiques are as follows:
(a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
(b) Breech-loading firearms capable of discharging a rimfire cartridge other than .22 inch
or .23 inch (or their metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
(c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition systems other than rimfire and centrefire (these
include pin-fire and needle-fire ignition systems, as well as the more obscure lip fire,
cup-primed, teat fire and base fire systems);
(d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally chambered for one of the obsolete cartridges
listed in Appendix 5 and which retain their original chambering;
(e) Shotguns and punt guns chambered for the following cartridges (expressed in imperial
measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore, 14 bore, 10 bore (2 and 2 inch only), 8 bore,
4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 1 bore, 1 ¼ bore and 1 ½ bore, and vintage punt guns and
shotguns with bores greater than 10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles in
these bores.
8.10. The exemption does not apply to ammunition, and the possession of live ammunition
suitable for use with an otherwise antique firearm may indicate that the firearm is not
possessed as a curiosity or ornament.




27 Apr 2016 17:00
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
The novice Lee Enfeld shooter's first outing firing a vintage pattern service rifle with Iron, open-sights. On firing, the brass butt-plate delivered a recoil reminder to the novice shoulder.
The range featured in the video Kingsbuy military range, Warwickshire.

Approved civilian shooting associations and associated clubs with access to DoD / MOD state owned firing ranges. The arrangement is simple, supplied with evidence of insurance cover, before pre-booking the range for a small fee paid to the gate-personnel on entering the range.

https://youtu.be/lvPsgXdvIeE



The BASC works hard at developing & defending shooting sports. Providing members £100,000 legal expenses, for example, where a firearm renewal was refused on spurious grounds. Having a 'Shall Renew' protection clause inserted in firearms law.
Negotiated an actual increase of shooters propellant for Home Reloders last year! something Irish shooting representatives at the FCP, may or may not be interested in, to know how they did it?
The proposal to be shortly introduce of a 10 years FAC, from the existing 5 years between a renewal of firearms, making the process for all involved in firearms licensing - simple. The streamlined 2009 Irish firearms act, never materialised in a similar way, reverting to type, courses galore vs practical experience and mentoring that costs nothing.

BASC Members Insurance:
http://basc.org.uk/join-basc/basc-members-insurance/

Quote:
membership comes with insurance you can rely on.

At BASC we look after the interests of over 140,000 shooting enthusiasts – more than any other organisation in the UK.

We use our size and all our experience to support the sport you love and give you the highest level of insurance cover built into your membership. You can always be certain that you’re properly protected.

If you are already a member, don’t forget to introduce a friend – you could both win a brand new Browning shotgun. See our Member Get a Member page on the website for details.

BASC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct


As a BASC member you automatically receive the following Insurance package:
•£10 million Legal Liability Cover ( for all shooting categories )
•£10 million Employer Liability Cover ( for all shooting categories )
•£10 million Product Liability cover ( for all shooting categories )

The policies provide cover for The British Association for Shooting and Conservation Limited and each member thereof. The Policies cover recreational activities of wildfowling, rabbit, pigeon, game, deer, vermin and target shooting, air-gunning, conservation, hawking, archery, angling and ferreting.

The policies provide worldwide cover with a limitation of 90 days to cover holidays for members resident permanently in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Channel Islands and Isle of Man. (Excluding North America & Canada).


Legal expenses insurance

Arranged by Aim Risk Services

£100,000 of cover for:

Refusal to grant or renew a shotgun or firearm certificate Revocation or refusal to vary a firearms certificate

Partial revocation of a firearms certificate

Revocation of a shotgun certificate

Conditions imposed on a firearm or shotgun certificate

For more information or to make a claim please contact the BASC firearms team

Personal accident insurance

Arranged by Marsh Ltd.

£50,000 cover for:

Personal accident resulting on the loss of or loss of use of sight, hearing ,limbs while engaged in the recreational activities of wildfowling, rabbit, pigeon, game, deer, vermin and target shooting, air-gunning, conservation, hawking, archery, angling and ferreting.



And
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _13_02.pdf

5 years FAC covering all firearms and ammunition, both factory manufactured and seperate components assembled at home. Only when these components are assembled turning them into an actual live cartridge, is it, considered ammunition on your FAC. In Ireland no one knows for sure to the extent inert ammunition found on display and for sale at military shows and army and navy stores go unnoticed by passing Gardai on duty....another one of those grey areas open to discretion. Laws that are perhaps made grey by design than black and white - the same for everyone laws, applied equally to licensed firearm holders already, vetted and approved.

Zeoring - grey area in the republic of Ireland – perhaps on purpose or another poorly devised change to the law, so that, the entire rifle shooting community was put under pressure and expected to join one of very few approved Target Ranges, in order to check a rifle for accuracy... Any dedicated vermin shooter and deerstalker worth their salt, know from experience of the importance of always checking a rifle for accuracy. A change of ammunition or when a new rifle and scope needs adjusting and testing over an unknown period of time, until set-up perfectly, at some suitable safe location. Unless the location was authorised for target shooting – costing, 1000 € every three years, the situation with regard to zeroing, became another grey area. Unlike the North of Ireland where everyone licensed to hunt with firearms is 'expected to practice and check the rifle for zero, on a regular basis' to ensure public safety - obvious best practice, when you think about it, FCP. Meanwhile, up there – the requirement does not include driving hours to an authorised target range suitable for centerfire rifle calibres, each and every time, the hunter decides to go out hunting. Public Safety vs badly drafted firearm laws – to include historic firearms with a calibre – over .308” restricted to meeting with a busy Chief Superintendent who know little or nothing about firearms.

------
Contrast and compare... secret agendas, a rudderless ship sailing without direction by top-down 1950s mannagement type of commanders, tending to favor the trade and commercial side of a sport with an exemption made for Clay shooting - not considered target shooting thus bypassing many OTT conditions attached to target shooting in Ireland.


23 May 2016 21:15
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
How Bad Are UK Gun Laws https://youtu.be/hRKIDk_bj78

Meeting the Brits with guns BBC News https://youtu.be/tT3cPwV4uTk


20 Jan 2018 11:43
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
Blackadder wrote:
Contrast and compare... top-down 1950s mannagement type of commanders, tending to favor the trade and commercial side of a sport with an exemption


model illustrating the naughties upward communication flowing from the lower levels to the first-level of the hierarchy pyramid :mrgreen:

Upward Communication https://youtu.be/2tyTeBqplhc


21 Jan 2018 21:34
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013 10:12
Posts: 157
Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
Attachment:
pyrmid of shit.jpg
pyrmid of shit.jpg [ 56.44 KiB | Viewed 3744 times ]

top down pyramid management is a very old concept borrowed from centuries of war and monarchies. - James Hunter


22 Jan 2018 14:28
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
The model explains why it's always raining shite :mrgreen: Ok there's sideways communication pyramid shifting to the horizontal flat https://youtu.be/ZIGkUDhuUJc


22 Jan 2018 18:32
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
....another - take two - historical rifles - one remained an anglo Canadian, non-restricted firearm licensed in Ireland, while the other historical bolt-action, shamefully out of ignorance, turned into a Canadian type of restricted thing because of the calibre - over .308" / 7.62 While, EU firearm recommendations place no restrictions on rifle calibres - an example of the pyramid failing in its duty to communicate in TIME with the ordinary membership.

https://youtu.be/wZbgYrkIdhk

https://youtu.be/59NZKPbBiHw


23 Jan 2018 13:02
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013 10:12
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
towering intellect have plans for more shit. In brief center fire shotgun over .410 inch restricted


24 Jan 2018 12:38
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
IN THE BULL wrote:
towering intellect have plans for more shit. In brief center fire shotgun over .410 inch restricted


In the RoI there are NO centrefire shotguns that would not come under this stricture, as you are not allowed to shoot a muzzleloader shotgun.

So that means that every farmer with his trusty ol' 12g has to have a restricted license.....yup, makes perfect sense.

To somebody.

tac


24 Jan 2018 19:01
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
UK Target Shooting Club, + Reloading.

http://www.reedstargetshootingclub.co.u ... /reloading


24 Aug 2019 00:39
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
Great post, Sir!!! And VERY useful for those thinking of getting into reloading as an extension to their shooting hobby.

It notes - 'It is recommended that you process cases in batches; say of 100 cases. Obtain empty cases; either buy new, unfired cases, or save your own fired cases. Do not bother with ex-military cases (unless they are ex-US military), because they usually use the Berdan priming system, and are difficult to de-cap and re-prime.'

I have a few things to add to these comments.

1. It's good idea to check the overall case length before going any further. That couple of thou too long really can cause you grief later on when you try and chamber your shiny new round. Case trimmers are an essential part of reloading - the LEE set costs around eu9 per calibre, and can be chucked in your handy drill. I use a cheap rechargeable set from Lidl for each one of the processes - trimming/polishing and de-burring. And talking about polishing, the VERY best item here is the Kleeneeze 'miracle cloth'. It's also a plan to clean out the primer pockets and holes - some cases have them punched through, Lapua and Norma are drilled, and pricey, but last a lot longer than Remington or, G*d forbid, Winchester

2. Berdan primers are not only a PITA to install - you'll need care and attention to use a mallet on a case placed on a hard surface with the primer part-set into the pocket - but these days, virtually unobtainable in any amount larger than 100. The last I saw were at Bisley in 2010, at £15/C, and were Russian, dated 1943. Hmmmm.

Any questions?

I'm happy to answer them.


24 Aug 2019 10:29
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
Long-barrelled revolvers, long-range pistols, section 1 shotguns and full bore rifles designed or adapted to fire ammunition capable of discharging projectiles at muzzle energies greater than 10,000 foot pounds may not be borrowed at a range for use by other club members. :shock:


23 Nov 2019 11:41
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Post Re: Licensing issues here in UK..
This day last year (24th November 2018) Fifty Calibre Shooters’ Association (FCSA) stopped the proposed ban on all rifles with a muzzle energy greater than 10,000ft-lbs / 13,600 joules in metric. More or less four to five times the energy of the average centerfire rifle cartridge.

The FCSA successfully lobbied MPs ending with the Home Secretary deciding to 'pull the proposed 13,600J prohibition from the Offensive Weapon Bill'.

http://www.fcsa.co.uk/news
http://www.fcsa.co.uk/

Contrast and compare with the 'over' simplistic approach on any minor thing 'over' 7.62 mm (.308 inch) amounting to a restricted / ban on the old Howth Easter Rising Mauser....

There was no restricted rifle calibre 'over' .308 inch directive that came from the EU. The Uk and Northern Ireland have no such thing as a ban on rifle calibres. For some time NRA Bisley do have some limits on rifles 'over' a certain muzzle energy; https://nra.org.uk/nra-bisley/ranges/la ... gulations/

What members of target shooting clubs across the UK can't do is share a rifle with a muzzle energy greater than 10,000ft-lbs / 13,600 Joules.
It effectively means a control on the novice or gobshite looking to turn up and have a go on the .50 BMG... maximum firing range‎ of ‎7,400 m / 8,100 yds....

Man Rifle coming in at 38 lbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e0CkubicRU


24 Nov 2019 21:18
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