View unanswered posts | View active topics Use Active Topics to see the latest post to this Forum, Just Register on the forum and login in to leave comments and opinions. It is currently 21 Oct 2019 10:14
You are visiting from

Forum rules


NOTICE: Access to use the complete VCRAI forum requires registration to the site.To view Vintage & Classic Rifles / Pistols / Tips and any other new subject matter added at some later stage, you must be a fully signed up member. Posts and Comments can be transferred or deleted! All welcome



Reply to topic  [ 139 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Firearms and Licensing 2013-2019 
Author Message

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 341
Post Firearms and Licensing 2013-2019
Since Sandy Hook another 900 Americans died from gunshot wounds in urban shootings. Obama called for a ban on "assault weapons" and limiting magazine clips to 10 rounds. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-5 ... he-streets


20 Jan 2013 20:41
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1804
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
SMLE 303 wrote:
Since Sandy Hook another 900 Americans died from gunshot wounds in urban shootings. Obama called for a ban on "assault weapons" and limiting magazine clips to 10 rounds. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-5 ... he-streets


Apart from the 'legal' homicides where the police actually shot and killed criminals, and the 'self-homicide' - suicides, IOW - the vast majority of thse deaths by gun were carried out by one bunch of nogs killing another nog or nogs with different 'tats' and recognition hand signals.

FWIW, I have forty Magpul 20-round magazines for .223 and sixty 20-rounders for the M1A. I'm pretty sure that between Ron, WP, Will, Bion, Joe and me, we have well over 500 of each, and enough ammunition in six calibres - all popular - to stock the entire PDF infantry training wing for the next ten years.

tac
www.sigforum.com
www.northwestfirearms.com
www.canadiangunnutz.com
www.muzzleloadingforum.com
www.swissrifles.com
www.whitesmoke.za.com
www.airgunbbs.com
www.gunboards.com - international patron
Life Member NRA, since 4th July 1976
Member - Clark Rifles Inc., Brush Prairie WA


20 Jan 2013 23:10
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
Chicago has the amongst the toughest gun laws in america but the one of the highest murder rates, as tac says you get one bunch of drug pushers shooting another bunch of drug pushers and that sends the rates sky high, the same thing has happened in ireland even though the douche called ahern said it would all stop when centrefire handguns were banned. The cmp thing i heard on some forum or other, a member had visited a cmp to buy a rifle and the guys working there weren't to optimistic about the future.

The whole assault rifle ban had been on obongo's agenda well before the sandyhook shooting, sadly it handed him a perfect excuse to do what he is doing.


21 Jan 2013 00:55
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1751
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
It was said he dropped this agenda when standing for election on both occasion. The question is can legally held firearms be confiscated in the USA. Each time there is mention of a ban thousands go out the very next day and purchase another one at the nearest gun store. It was Bill Clinton that signed the assualt rifle ban in 1994 which lasted all of 10 years. Democrats back then had a majority in Congress. This time the leader of Congress Harry Reed is a Democrat and NRA life member rated A + by them. Furthermore, Republicans hold an overall majority in the house. Obama wishes to avoid another tragedy which is very understandable, but it may become yet another gestures against the constitutional right enshrined in the Second Amendmen. The mental health issue of mostly young men going on the rampages grabs headlines around the world and rightly so. Yet it's the gang related crime which is responsible for hundreds of deaths each month. This fact appears lost in the back pages, which is one of arguments made by those opposing any ban.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: "The first foundational principle is there is a Second Amendment. The president and I support the Second Amendment. And it comes with the right of law-abiding responsible citizens who own guns, use it for their protection as well as for recreation."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/16/polit ... index.html

Bill Clinton On Gun Control: 'Do Not Patronize The Passionate Supporters Of Your Opponents'
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cbf_1358733999

With a constitutional Second Amendment protecting their rights why should CMP members feel singled-out for sepcial treatment. They promote safe responsible target shooting for civilians participating in a recognised sport after all. Such type knee-jerk reactions is normally expected this side of the Atlantic. To attack Veteran Target shooters and their trusty vintage M1 Garands will stir a hornets nest backlash - highly improbable it would seem. The Garand btw, is non rerstricted firearm even in Canada. Has someone suggested these iconic firearms and target shooters are risks to society? National match shooting in the US & Canada use civilian type M14s & AR15s. To date no evidence suggests any wrong doing by this group of enthusiasts ever has occured.


21 Jan 2013 19:11
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1804
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Firearms and Licensing 2013
rowa2 wrote:
Has there been any representations to the doj or gardai about the licencing of blackpowder firearms ? I would dearly love a ruger old army like tacs.


Well, not that I know of but perhaps somebody closer to the licensing scene like our John K can put us right there.

However, note that the Ruger Old Army is a .45cal and would therefore be restricted, AND is a six-shooter, too, so one chamber would need to be blocked off, just in case anybody ran amok with one down O'Connell Street - like they do, of course, every other wednesday that there is a 'q' in the month.

Anyhow, you don't actually NEED black powder, as there are now at least FIVE substitutes that are classed in the rest of the world as propellants. This is because they are, in fact, propellants. I keep all mine on a shelf in my little shed.

However, they are NOT propellants in the RoI, but massively dangerous explosives that go boom when you look at a picture of the container. In fact, they are SO dangerous that the Explosives Act [still waiting for that one, Mr Shatter] doesn't even mention them, for fear of them all going off at the same time.

BTW, the last recorded incident where a BP revolver was deliberately fired at another person in UK took place in 1926. The shooter, after a poacher, missed with the only shot he fired from his flintlock pistol.

tac


05 Feb 2013 12:53
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1021
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
rowa2 wrote:

The whole assault rifle ban had been on obongo's agenda well before the sandyhook shooting, sadly it handed him a perfect excuse to do what he is doing.



http://youtu.be/nVf8DzqhfM4ABC, CBS, NBC Admit No Assault Rifle Used at Sandy Hook :shock:


06 Feb 2013 12:22
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1021
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
Piers Morgan Shoots Assault Rifle. Shocked By 'Unbelievable Power' :shock:

http://youtu.be/1P7uk9KVdMg


http://youtu.be/jHmxY7zE5uc


20 Feb 2013 22:12
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 09:03
Posts: 2345
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
Quote[Blackadder]The question is can legally held firearms be confiscated in the USA. Yet it's the gang related crime which is responsible for hundreds of deaths each month.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This link below gives you an insight into where the guns are doing real damage and there all illegal and killing Innocent People.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-5 ... he-streets

More to the point Black Adder (The Question is can the illegally held firearms be confiscated and removed from the streets of the USA ?)

sikamick


21 Feb 2013 01:00
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1804
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Rifles of the USA
Sikamick wrote:
Quote[Blackadder]The question is can legally held firearms be confiscated in the USA. Yet it's the gang related crime which is responsible for hundreds of deaths each month.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This link below gives you an insight into where the guns are doing real damage and there all illegal and killing Innocent People.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-5 ... he-streets

More to the point Black Adder (The Question is can the illegally held firearms be confiscated and removed from the streets of the USA ?)

sikamick



Yeah, right.

I'm reminded of that comment in the Houses of Parliament a few years back, where one dummy proposed a 'list of ALL the illegally-held firearms in the UK...'.

tac


21 Feb 2013 09:36
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1751
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
rowa2 wrote:
Has there been any representations to the doj or gardai about the licencing of blackpowder firearms ? I would dearly love a ruger old army like tacs.


From the historical prospective prior to the completed firearms act 2009, those representatives at the FCP (defunct SSAI) or anyone with a grain of interest in Historical Arms, missed the boat it appears, and lost the significance and consequences of a having a caliber restriction placed above .308" It meant obsolete calibers firearms or those slightly larger i.e. 7.92mm Mauser, a very average cartridge, and practically all period bore sizes became restricted arms. Chief Superintendents I believe, were never part of this closed consultation process and not surprising to hear their reluctance to license anything restricted in their District.

"representations" need to begin again and look to the requirements commonly used elsewhere, the nearest example just an hour away! Most other jurisdictions class BP firearms the same as shotgun licensing or even with less restriction found in many European countries, with no licensing requirement at all. It can cause headaches such as problems for re-enactors wishing to visit Ireland.

Canada-Black Powder Firearms
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
http://www.rcmp.gc.ca


http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-f ... re-eng.htm


07 Mar 2013 18:42
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
Thanks blackadder. Maybe the vcrai , which would be the association most concerned with blackpowder firearms, could be the one to make enquiries or representations to the doj ? You know the old saying "it costs nothing to ask". Blackpowder muzzleloaders, as has been said are the most inoffensive of firearms and of least danger to the safety to the public.

I think people who would be interested in very old firearms (either in design or date of manufacture) were overlooked in the mad scramble to stop an "american style gun culture". The same thing has happened to archers interested in crossbow shooting as their crossbows were by omission made restricted firearms.


07 Mar 2013 23:07
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1751
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
rowa2 wrote:
I think people who would be interested in very old firearms (either in design or date of manufacture) were overlooked in the mad scramble to stop an "american style gun culture". The same thing has happened to archers interested in crossbow shooting as their crossbows were by omission made restricted firearms.


Sadly there is more than a grain of truth with that reply.
All the same, it's great to see historic guns are now well maintained and appreciated. The Mauser 1871-11mm as example, in ideal circumstances should have been fairly categorised as a non-restricted Historical Firearms, with several other period caliber firearms and a handful of vintage arms, i.e. Germany's WWI & II 7.92mm Mauser with lever action style cowboy rifles. Possibly by default more than by design, all bore sizes above .308"/ 7.62mm became restricted firearms. Categorized in law as more dangerous firearms than non-restricted types.
At the heart of our licensing system, there is the belief in fairness (guidelines) which hopefully one day will rectify this historical error of judgment that may have occured.
Patently most other juristictions stick with the tried & tested requirement of good reason for acquiring particular firearms and ammunition, which does more or less the same thing of restricting access to firearms without a valid reason. In Canada as we know, they restrict CF handguns and most semi-auto centerfire rifles, with certain exceptions such as the M1 Garand, the latest Swiss Service rifle to name but a few. Calibers are .17-.50BMG and above which can include 20mm (aprox .75") It therefore should make for interesting debate to see the findings of data collected from the easter rising tests.


12 Mar 2013 13:12
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 09:03
Posts: 2345
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
Quote [Black Adder] Sadly there is more than a grain of truth with that reply.
All the same, it's great to see historic guns are now well maintained and appreciated. The Mauser 1871-11mm as example, in ideal circumstances should have been fairly categorised as a non-restricted Historical Firearms, with several other period caliber firearms and a handful of vintage arms, i.e. Germany's WWI & II 7.92mm Mauser with lever action style cowboy rifles. Possibly by default more than by design, all bore sizes above .308"/ 7.62mm became restricted firearms. Categorized in law as more dangerous firearms than non-restricted types.

At the heart of our licensing system, there is the belief in fairness (guidelines) which hopefully one day will rectify this historical error of judgment that may have occurred.

Patently most other juristictions stick with the tried & tested requirement of good reason for acquiring particular firearms and ammunition, which does more or less the same thing of restricting access to firearms without a valid reason. In Canada as we know, they restrict CF handguns and most semi-auto centerfire rifles, with certain exceptions such as the M1 Garand, the latest Swiss Service rifle to name but a few. Calibers are .17-.50BMG and above which can include 20mm (aprox .75") It therefore should make for interesting debate to see the findings of data collected from the easter rising tests.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Quote [rowa2] Thanks blackadder. Maybe the vcrai , which would be the association most concerned with blackpowder firearms, could be the one to make enquiries or representations to the doj ? You know the old saying "it costs nothing to ask". Blackpowder muzzleloaders, as has been said are the most inoffensive of firearms and of least danger to the safety to the public.

I think people who would be interested in very old firearms (either in design or date of manufacture) were overlooked in the mad scramble to stop an "american style gun culture". The same thing has happened to archers interested in crossbow shooting as their crossbows were by omission made restricted firearms.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Re shooting black powder firearms and restricted firearms list: I think the first place to start is the restricted list and in particular vintage and classic firearms, there never was a need to introduce a restricted firearms list, simply because all legal firearms must be licensed here in the ROI which in itself is a restriction, example air rifles.

Unfortunately the powers that be see restricted as something that you cant have i.e. (Banned rather than curbed or regulated).

The Commissioners guide lines:
These Guidelines are intended to set out in practical terms, for the benefit of members of the Garda Síochána and the public alike, how the complex area of firearms legislation may be applied and this document should be read in conjunction with firearms legislation, in particular the new sections as outlined below.

Each case ought to be judged on its own merits, being mindful of the need to apply the legislation in a fair and equitable manner to all applicants. An intention to acquire a firearm certificate should generally involve a genuine intent to use the firearm on a
regular basis.


Quote [Each case ought to be judged on its own merits,] this of itself does away with the need for a restricted list.

Reloading, Black powder shooting and the likes have been proved to be safe by way of the a pilot cartridge reloading scheme that has been taking place on a range here in the ROI.

Maybe its time that this be granted / opened up to other clubs / ranges.

Sikamick


12 Mar 2013 15:51
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
Sikamick wrote:

Unfortunately the powers that be see restricted as something that you cant have i.e. (Banned rather than curbed or regulated).



Each case ought to be judged on its own merits, being mindful of the need to apply the legislation in a fair and equitable manner to all applicants. An intention to acquire a firearm certificate should generally involve a genuine intent to use the firearm on a
regular basis.


Quote [Each case ought to be judged on its own merits,] this of itself does away with the need for a restricted list.

Reloading, Black powder shooting and the likes have been proved to be safe by way of the a pilot cartridge reloading scheme that has been taking place on a range here in the ROI.

Maybe its time that this be granted / opened up to other clubs / ranges.

Sikamick


"Restricted means banned to the ptb"

Correct as far as i can see mick, but one of the shooting orgs was pushing this "restricted" bs well before ahern did his hatchet job on the firearms act, the reason ? no idea. To me it should be the person being licenced and not the gun, how can a shooter be fine with a shotgun or .22 rifle but a danger to the public with another firearm ? either someone is entirely safe or they aren't ?

"to apply the legislation in a fair and equitable manner to all applicants"

Sorry but we all know that this particular statement is a bare faced lie and the proof of that was splashed across the sunday independent last year during the pistols appeal test case. Some superintendents decided that far from being fair and equitable they would alter applications to suit their own agenda, namely the removal of centrefire pistols from civilian hands. This being a criminal act in fact.

Incidently i was talking to a fellow club member a while ago and it transpired that the acting chief super we had last year was the one who wrote the so called guidelines, this is also the chief super who told me he knew nothing at all about firearms !


12 Mar 2013 22:24
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1804
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
rowa2 wrote:
Incidently i was talking to a fellow club member a while ago and it transpired that the acting chief super we had last year was the one who wrote the so called guidelines, this is also the chief super who told me he knew nothing at all about firearms !


Why am I not totally amazed at this comment?

It is evident almost every time I read a post here or on another forum. THAT is why the UK police authority employ full-time civilian Firearms Enquiries Officers with wide-ranging experience of all aspects of shooting sports, to make the correct decision for them. Three such FEO's are members of the same gun club as me, although one that I don't know has to act as 'my' FEO at the five-year renewal times, as he might otherwise show signs of 'bias' in my favour. Not, of course, that such a thing would ever happen here due to the way that the Firearms and Explosives Licensing system actually works, and it does work. There are over 19,000 gun licenses in my county alone - a rural place if ever there was one.

Such a person as you have mentioned MUST have his own agenda/opinion that is carried on into the advice he gives, much of which, as far as I can see, ist total s***e.

tac


13 Mar 2013 13:37
Profile

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1804
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
Sikamick wrote:
Reloading, Black powder shooting and the likes have been proved to be safe by way of the a pilot cartridge reloading scheme that has been taking place on a range here in the ROI.

Maybe its time that this be granted / opened up to other clubs / ranges.

Sikamick



Only then will the 'us and them' divide be removed. It is, of course, totally unfair in every way, as well as contrary to the 'equal treatment' that each citizen deserves. After all, EVERYBODY who has a firearms license has already been judged to be trustworthy with a potentially lethal firearm.

tac


13 Mar 2013 14:15
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1751
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
It may be worth reflecting on what was said back in 2008 as a point of reference. What appears in hindsight as a probable omission, namely the very people in charge of licensing District by District- Superintendents, who as the “persona designata” must consider each application is the person that decides locally. With about 120 Superintendents and aprox 24 Chief Superintendents, it's only human nature for a wide range of differing views and opinion. In most other juristictions, the type of permitted firearms allowed for licensing & renewal 'Nationally' was always decided centrally. Vetting and the suitability of the applicant often will remain local.
Of interest even a highly experienced officer present at the 2008 conference; Roger Weedon, Firearms Licensing Manager with 34 years in Surrey Police, spoke of the shock he had when he
became Divisional Commander Chief Superintenden which division cover the National Shooting Center Bisley. Without the help of specially trained staff in Firearms Licensing - he and his juniors ranks would of been lost.
Part of his speech at the conference below, worth noting almost every aspect to shooting sports are documented from the conference in 2008, a window to how the experts assembled were thinking over and what became our new firearms act 2009!

Mixed quotes...
Quote:
because for my sins the national shooting centre BISLEY sits in the centre of Surrey and the three major shooting organisations have their headquarters based there and as they are the sponsors of overseas shooters I end up licensing all of those people... I’ve never been so wrong in my entire career; I found out straight away that I didn’t know the first thing about civilian use of firearms so it came as a bit of a shock, and as the days went by I began to wonder if I had made the right decision, but the pension carried me through so I stuck with it!.......you possibly don’t have reloading in Ireland but we have it in the UK and really it should be that ALL the component parts of reloading ammunition should be subject to possession of a firearm certificate...


Interesting reloading was brought-up several times. Thousands reload at the National Shooting Center Bisley each year and throughout Europe...everywhere - over 30 years up there and no reloading material caused issues. The majority in the south still can't reload 5 years later - attempts at "pipe bomb" manufacture are obviously made with some other sourced material, other than target shooters small amounts of little value -propellent noted as causing a confined bursting effect of the vessel!

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1752


13 Mar 2013 15:00
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 341
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
rowa2 wrote:

Correct as far as i can see mick, but one of the shooting orgs was pushing this "restricted" bs well before ahern did his hatchet job on the firearms act, the reason ? no idea.

Who in their right minds wants s**on their shoe ?


13 Mar 2013 17:43
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
SMLE 303 wrote:
rowa2 wrote:

Correct as far as i can see mick, but one of the shooting orgs was pushing this "restricted" bs well before ahern did his hatchet job on the firearms act, the reason ? no idea.

Who in their right minds wants s**on their shoe ?


sorry , i don't understand your point.


13 Mar 2013 21:39
Profile

Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 341
Post Re: Firearms and Licensing 2013
You're ok, I thought "restricted " was a bad idea and why would you ask for it ?


13 Mar 2013 22:29
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 139 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
You are visiting from Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software.