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Licensing, Semi-Automatic, Centerfire Rifles in Ireland 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1711
Post Re: m1 garand licence
Several FCP delegates had difficulties interpreting the end results of their labour - overlooked-outside the process were the very people put in charge of licensing locally. Not surprising to hear when numbers of Superintendents bypass the FPU altogether, according to what rowa reported as fact.


26 Sep 2012 12:16
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: RESTRICTED
gunhappy_ie wrote:
Hi Rayfn,

M1s (both grands and carbines) are restricted because they are semi automatic centerfire rifles.

The only type of semi auto that isnt restricted are rimfires that have a magazine capacity of 10 or less rounds Eg ruger 10/22 with a standard factory mag. Should you put a magazine with higher capacity than 10 on the 10/22 it becomes restricted.

As for length..... a centerfire longarm (rifle/shotgun) becomes restricted when its barrel is shorter than 30 cm and its overall length is shorter than 60 cm because under irish law because it is then classed as a short arm (pistol). Should a rimfire rifle be that short it would be classed as an unrestrictred pistol as long as its magazine capacity was 5 or less.

I hope that helps.

GH


What about these special sporting purposes semi automatic centerfire rifles GH?

Now sporting purposes semi automatic centerfire rifles seem good to go if triggers and other parts modification can take it out of the category of the "assault rifle"
In my humble opinion FNs, Garands had always the right trigger assembly to keep out of the assault rifles category
Anyone explain assault rifle restricted (AR)


TIA


09 Dec 2013 14:34
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1776
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: RESTRICTED
There is positively NO definitive description of what, precisely, constitutes an assault rifle in the RoI. Nor, for that matter has there ever been such a definition in the USA or anywhere else. It is generally AGREED, though, that an ASSAULT RIFLE/CARBINE shoots an intermediate calibre cartridge, á la AK47, rather than a full-size, full-length rifle cartridge like the .30-06, and has the capacity for FULL AUTOMATIC fire via the selector switch.

As such, no civilian in the EU, in general, is allowed to own such a firearm.

However, it seems that in the RoI, the superintendent issuing the license simply has to IMAGINE, if he squints a bit, that what he is looking at is a 'military style assault rifle', and behold, you are ****ed.

tac


09 Dec 2013 15:34
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009 19:56
Posts: 86
Post Re: RESTRICTED
SMLE 303 wrote:
gunhappy_ie wrote:
Hi Rayfn,

M1s (both grands and carbines) are restricted because they are semi automatic centerfire rifles.

The only type of semi auto that isnt restricted are rimfires that have a magazine capacity of 10 or less rounds Eg ruger 10/22 with a standard factory mag. Should you put a magazine with higher capacity than 10 on the 10/22 it becomes restricted.

As for length..... a centerfire longarm (rifle/shotgun) becomes restricted when its barrel is shorter than 30 cm and its overall length is shorter than 60 cm because under irish law because it is then classed as a short arm (pistol). Should a rimfire rifle be that short it would be classed as an unrestrictred pistol as long as its magazine capacity was 5 or less.

I hope that helps.

GH


What about these special sporting purposes semi automatic centerfire rifles GH?

Now sporting purposes semi automatic centerfire rifles seem good to go if triggers and other parts modification can take it out of the category of the "assault rifle"
In my humble opinion FNs, Garands had always the right trigger assembly to keep out of the assault rifles category
Anyone explain assault rifle restricted (AR)


TIA


Been awhile since I posted so excuse me for being a little little rusty but youve me confused with 2 questions:

[color=#FF0000]1. "Special sporting purpose Semi auto center rifle" ??? [/color]

In a previous post I mentioned how all Semi auto centerfires are restricted in Ireland and again there is no limit as to the magazine capacity allowed in a restricted firearm.

Restricted semi autos fall into one of two definitions in S.I 21 of 2008:

1. "semi-automatic firearms" means firearms that reload automatically from a magazine or cylinder each time a round is discharged but can fire not more than one round with a single pull of the trigger.

Or

2. "assault rifles" means-

(a) rifles capable of functioning as semi-automatic and fully-automatic firearms.

(b) firearms which resemble such rifles.

So Ill start with the "assault rifles".... I have been involved in several cases (mod edit) classing all semi autos as "Assault rifles" in an effort to win cases in favor of the Chief supers decision.

Ive said it many many times before that what this person and many other people are doing is basing there opinions on the visual representation of the firearm in front of them and not basing it on the mechanical function of the firearm along with the design features that separate the two.

In my experience and opinion unless a fully automatic gun was converted to semi automatic with as little modification of parts as possible it is only then an "assault rifle" on resemblance.

An M1 Grand or carbine should not fall into this category as they were never really produced as a fully automatic gun.

It is also worth pointing out that the initial concept for the assault rifle was that as well as being fully automatic it was to use an intermediary cartridge like 5.56/7.62x39 and not 7.62/30-06. A rifle using a full powered rifle cartridge like 7.62/30-06 was always considered as a battle rifle.

Taking what I said above on board the FN Fal is a different kettle of fish in that it was available in both fully automatic and semi automatic.

In an ideal world the powers that be would actually have a clue what there talking about in court and not referencing wikipedia so your "Special sporting purpose Semi auto center rifle" would be defined as a Semi-automatic under irish law and if you have a valid reason to have it you should be granted a licence.

2. "Anyone explain assault rifle restricted (AR) "

There is no such thing, semi auto centerfire rifles are restricted unless your getting mixed up with people who have a rifle based on the Armalite 15 (AR) platform.

Hope i didnt melt the ears off you :)

GH


09 Dec 2013 16:48
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
rowa2 wrote:
You might want to handle a m14 before you buy one , i seen one and its a heavy old beast especially the action.

Pull the butt tight to your shoulder,take aim and gently squeeze :mrgreen: http://youtu.be/zGiJKRzBG74


20 May 2014 20:19
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013 10:12
Posts: 134
Post Re: FN-49
does making an license application for the 49 cause the cs extra hassle


03 Jan 2018 01:29
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1776
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: FN-49
IN THE BULL wrote:
does making an license application for the 49 cause the cs extra hassle

All you have to do is to justify the ownership of such a firearm. Simply saying 'I like the look of dat ting' is not enough.

tac


06 Feb 2018 14:51
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: FN-49
So the box of chocolates won't bring success :mrgreen:


06 Feb 2018 15:47
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1711
Post Re: Licensing, Semi-Automatic, Centerfire Rifles in Ireland
Who knows, it might cause a refusal :D He or she, the Chief Superintendent, might be more inclined to first look you up and down in order to form an opinion, to then proceed on to decline the offer of a gift, on the grounds of going against the Garda code of best practice.

Where application is for a restricted firearm, the applicant must have good and sufficient reason for requiring such a firearm and must additionally demonstrate that 'the restricted firearm is the only type appropriate for the purpose'.

The FN-49 was an important historical post-war rifle first entering service in 1949. The top-loaded, 10 shot semi-automatic - weight 9 lb 8 oz / length 43.5 inch.
Club and association membership, ideally one capable of possessing an amount of supportive interest in this type of restricted rifle, just might bring enough to beef up your good reason.
Firearm licensing in Ireland was never known for its black and white approach when it comes to firearm applications. It depends on the chief superintendent opinion and the attitude they hold towards licensing firearms. It should also be remembered, the same approach to licensing, sometimes differ between districts, where in the past, it became a leading cause of litigation for seeing you in court...

Good luck


07 Feb 2018 15:48
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
Posts: 332
Post Re: m1 garand licence
kavanjoh wrote:
Some suggestions
I have used similar wording on letters for my own rifle application.


Chief Superintendent {Name}
[Address]



[Date}

Reference: License application re classic rifle


Dear Chief Superintendent,

I wish to address any concerns that you may have re my application for a classic rifle.

Firstly, I am an avid target rifle shooter and a member of an authorised club / rifle range.

I have always had an interest in collecting / shooting classic rifles that had a huge historical significance in world history. I have the opportunity to purchase a rifle as a curiosity, investment and for it’s historic value. As this rifle is capable of firing ammunition, I am required to have it licensed in the state.

To hold this rifle in a safe secure environment, I have a secure gun cabinet meeting the required BS 7558 standard and a house alarm installed.

I am a member of an authorised club / range ************************************* and the Vintage & Classic Rifle Association of Ireland. I hold target shooting insurance with ***************************

The rifle in question is a M1 Garand
Calibre 30-06

A brief history on this rifle;
Called "the greatest battle rifle ever devised" by General George S. Patton,
The Garand officially replaced the bolt-action M1903 Springfield as the standard service rifle of the United States Armed Forces in 1936.
The M1 was used heavily by U.S. forces in World War II and the Korean War.

The M1 rifle is a gas-operated, semi-automatic, clip-fed rifle. By modern standards, the M1's feeding system is archaic, relying on clips to feed ammunition, and was the principal source of criticism of the rifle.

Garand's rifle was originally chambered for the .276 Pedersen cartridge, charged by means of 10-round clips. Later through refinement, it was chambered for the then-standard .30-06 Springfield cartridge. The diameter of the .30-06 cartridge only allowed for the loading of eight rounds into the fixed magazine.

Two of Garand's patents, showing the original gas trap design and revised gas port system.
Garand's original design for the M1 used a complicated gas system involving a special muzzle extension gas trap, later dropped in favor of a simpler drilled gas port. Because most of the older rifles were retrofitted, pre-1939 gas-trap M1s are very rare today and are prized collector's items..

The weight of the M1 varies between 9.5 lb (4.31 kg) and 10.2 lb (4.63 kg) unloaded (depending on sling type and stock wood density) a considerable increase over the previous M1903 Springfield. The length was 43.6 inches (1,107 mm).

Yours Sincerely


So happens that your friend here prepared u wording in advance :mrgreen:


07 Feb 2018 16:50
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