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Licensing, Semi-Automatic, Centerfire Rifles in Ireland 
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Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post m1 garand licence
has any member of this site successfully applied for a licence for a garand ? its ceratinly a rifle i'd be interested in owning and a dealer i know has said he can source me a wartime dated one .
what reasons did you give the chief super why a bolt action wouldn't suffice ?


28 Jan 2011 17:26
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Joined: 06 Jun 2009 09:39
Posts: 951
Post Re: m1 garand licence
There was one at one of our shoots.

As for a reason........................can't think of one, sorry :(


28 Jan 2011 19:26
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Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post Re: m1 garand licence
is it being a historic and classic firearm enough on its own ?


28 Jan 2011 19:32
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009 15:26
Posts: 608
Post Re: m1 garand licence
Some suggestions
I have used similar wording on letters for my own rifle application.


Chief Superintendent {Name}
[Address]



[Date}

Reference: License application re classic rifle


Dear Chief Superintendent,

I wish to address any concerns that you may have re my application for a classic rifle.

Firstly, I am an avid target rifle shooter and a member of an authorised club / rifle range.

I have always had an interest in collecting / shooting classic rifles that had a huge historical significance in world history. I have the opportunity to purchase a rifle as a curiosity, investment and for it’s historic value. As this rifle is capable of firing ammunition, I am required to have it licensed in the state.

To hold this rifle in a safe secure environment, I have a secure gun cabinet meeting the required BS 7558 standard and a house alarm installed.

I am a member of an authorised club / range ************************************* and the Vintage & Classic Rifle Association of Ireland. I hold target shooting insurance with ***************************

The rifle in question is a M1 Garand
Calibre 30-06

A brief history on this rifle;
Called "the greatest battle rifle ever devised" by General George S. Patton,
The Garand officially replaced the bolt-action M1903 Springfield as the standard service rifle of the United States Armed Forces in 1936.
The M1 was used heavily by U.S. forces in World War II and the Korean War.

The M1 rifle is a gas-operated, semi-automatic, clip-fed rifle. By modern standards, the M1's feeding system is archaic, relying on clips to feed ammunition, and was the principal source of criticism of the rifle.

Garand's rifle was originally chambered for the .276 Pedersen cartridge, charged by means of 10-round clips. Later through refinement, it was chambered for the then-standard .30-06 Springfield cartridge. The diameter of the .30-06 cartridge only allowed for the loading of eight rounds into the fixed magazine.

Two of Garand's patents, showing the original gas trap design and revised gas port system.
Garand's original design for the M1 used a complicated gas system involving a special muzzle extension gas trap, later dropped in favor of a simpler drilled gas port. Because most of the older rifles were retrofitted, pre-1939 gas-trap M1s are very rare today and are prized collector's items..

The weight of the M1 varies between 9.5 lb (4.31 kg) and 10.2 lb (4.63 kg) unloaded (depending on sling type and stock wood density) a considerable increase over the previous M1903 Springfield. The length was 43.6 inches (1,107 mm).

Yours Sincerely


28 Jan 2011 22:54
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009 08:29
Posts: 337
Location: Ireland
Post Re: m1 garand licence
Having fired the original Garand last year on the Midlands range ( and got a bit of a bollocking as VCRAI or DTSC were no longer affiliated) I was seriously impressed. Dream to fire. Faboulous trigger and excellent accuracy, 3 inch group or so at 100 yds with no previous experience of the rifle. (worth getting chewed out over) I would fully reccomend the rifle. If only licencing was easier in Ireland.


29 Jan 2011 00:40
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009 19:56
Posts: 86
Post Re: m1 garand licence
There were at least 10 licenced under the old system as a dealer in galway brought in 10 and they sold like hotcakes. As to how many have been licenced under the new system i dont know but I personally know of 2 so as to the other 8.......


Johns letter is a great platform. You could also include that post WWII service rifles are an area of interest to you as great advances in technology were made (and most happen to be semi sutos). The rifle in which you wish to purchase is known to be reliable and accurate.

include that there are other members with semiauto rifles of simular calibre (but different rifles eg Enfield G3s) so you will be able to compete against them (Im 1 of them :P)

If you have any experience with the PDF or RDF use that leverage too, perhaps you have fired the FN years ago and would now like to see what the americans had to offer ???



Is it in 30.06 or .308 ????


07 Feb 2011 03:33
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1851
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: m1 garand licence
gunhappy_ie wrote:
Is it in 30.06 or .308 ????


If it is a WW2 Garand then it is in .30-06. However, 90% were rebuilt in the late 1940's/early 1950's at Rock Island Arsenal. To find an unrebuilt WW2 Garand, even in the USA, is like finding the Holy Grail. When we were at a gun-show in Tacoma WAS last year there WAS said to be such an item. It had a $15k price-tag.

THIS is an excerpt from the CMP page -

'Over the past 65 years, most M1 rifles have been arsenal rebuilt, refinished, rebarreled or repaired at least once and often several times. Most will show signs of service (often considerable) and replacement of various parts. They are seldom encountered with all original parts and original finish as delivered from the manufacturer. Such "original" rifles, even in well-used condition, are highly prized by collectors.'

tac


07 Feb 2011 09:26
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:31
Posts: 706
Location: Harold Hill,England
Post Re: m1 garand licence
My own Garand is Springfield Armoury. Not sure of the current calibre because it is new specification deactivated and is fully welded up. When I bought this rifle, three years ago. Garands were very hard to come by on the UK D/A market. My one is said to be ex Norweigen Army. The going rate at the time was £375 to £425.

The Danish Army were issued with Baretta built Garands in the 1950's. My friend in the Danish Army says they were a POS and packed up after about 100 rounds.( Being Italian this helps with the mass surrenders)! However this batch of Garands were retro fitted with American made Springfield Armoury parts. Became quite a good rifle and are now sought after in Denmark.
In Denmark for civilian licence the Garand has to be single shot and the gas tube is cut.

The Danish Army still have some Garands and P17 in reserve stock. During the next deployment to Afganistan my friend is seeking permission to take either some Garands or P17 on the tour.
As Combat Engineers they get sniped at when building roads etc. Their issue HK 5.56mm rifle is no good in the shooting competitions with the Terries over 300m. ( My friend is a bit old school and trained with the HKG3 in 7.62mm).

I think any one buying a Garand will have an interesting time discovering its history.


07 Feb 2011 15:40
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Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
Posts: 581
Post Re: m1 garand licence
the garands being sold here are the italian ones to the best of my knowledge and are in .308 , i suppose like the 1911 pistol many upgraded and performance aftermarket parts are available for the garands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWySurv8X4


07 Feb 2011 19:48
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009 15:26
Posts: 608
Post Re: m1 garand licence
rowa2 wrote:
the garands being sold here are the italian ones to the best of my knowledge and are in .308 , i suppose like the 1911 pistol many upgraded and performance aftermarket parts are available for the garands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWySurv8X4

There are quite a lot of after market upgrades for the Garand one of the best in the gas regulator.

The rifle was build around various calibers settling on the 30-06. During war time the "match grade" ammo wasn't always available so they designed the Garand to cycle what every quality of 30-06 was available and it would rattle the fillings out of your head. It was the most uncomfortable rifle I have ever used (my opinion) but in the 7.62 x51 NATO, excellent loved it.

The 30-06 versions have been known to bend or break the gas push-rod, at the tip and to that end a service kit has a new one in it.
They are a great rifle but after firing both I personally would go for the Beretta or Breda Manufactured 7.62 variant (personal choice)

John


07 Feb 2011 20:34
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009 19:56
Posts: 86
Post Re: m1 garand licence
Buy the gun first, shooot it and if it works fine ( it may need a few hundred rounds to break in) leave it alone.

Had a guy buy and replace recoil springs etc and couldnt figure out why the gun wouldnt cycle... so he got an adjustable regulator .. still no joy.

Turns out that he bought +power springs so that there wasnt enough recoil to bring the bolt fully rearward and chamber a the next round.

Once he changed beck to its origional configuration it worked fine.


08 Feb 2011 10:20
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:31
Posts: 706
Location: Harold Hill,England
Post Re: m1 garand licence
I have to add some info to the video above. The Danes have an equiverlent to the "Crows Foot" marking.
They use "HTK", "FKF" and "M96" onwards, on modern stuff. The stampings indicate which depot issued or repaired the piece of kit.
The chap in the video is in error with his info about the Danish made bayonet. Carl Eickhorn in Germany made them. It's a version of the US M5A1 bayonet. The Danish version is better made. Some were packaged in Germany as late as 1994 which indicates the Danes still have quite a few Garands in stock. Another unusual feature of Danish Army bayonet is they like wood pattern plastic laminated scabbards.
The Danes only having a small regular army. Most chaps are 18 month national servicemen. They have stopped using US kit. They now buy in the German Fritz helmet, Arktis clothing and tank suits. They use the Glock shovel. They are not issued bayonets any more due to the Danes signing up to the latest version of the Genever Convention so they are issued with the Glock knife ( similar blade shape to the HKG3 bayonet). For the civilian market Glock sell a sawback knife. Well worth the £30-£40 price.
It's very difficult to get any Danish Army surplus kit but If it does come to the market it is usually very good quality.( Arktis/ Country Covers were selling new Danish Army rain gear at Bisley last year. Arktis/Country Covers also make for the SAS etc).


08 Feb 2011 15:13
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:31
Posts: 706
Location: Harold Hill,England
Post Re: m1 garand licence
I have just field stripped my Garand for the first time. using the info in the video. Most usefull.
I am unable to discover the calibre of it, other than my D/A cert states 30-06. It's a 5 million serial number, mostly made up from Springfield Armoury parts.
The internal parts are very robust and may be over engineered. The rifle splits into three main bits. Wood stock,trigger group and action. I could not fiddle with too many parts because most of it is welded up being a "new spec D/A".
I am a bit baffled why some one would want to invent that 8 round charger clip system. The regular 5 round stripper clip or box magazine would seem more suitable. The later M14 was magazine fed.
I can't comment on the shooting properties of various weapons because my collection is totally D/A. The Garand is a big lump, to field strip it you have to break it in half.( same situation with the BAR and Thompson gun of the same era). I can now understand why the old Springfield rifle has such a popular following.Also the SVT40 has merits, it's lighter.
General Patton said the Garand was the rifle that won the war. He carried a revolver most of the time. Faced with the weight of a Garand and it's complecation. I think you would have been better off fighting the Japanese with a SMLE, 10 rounds plus one up the spout, longer bayonet and three methods of loading. If well built carry a Brengun instead. It's easier to field strip.


08 Feb 2011 20:29
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010 14:04
Posts: 4
Post Licensing, Semi-Automatic, Centerfire Rifles in Ireland
OK, just a newbie to this forum so apologies if I ask a question that has been answered before.
I came across the VCRAI a while ago and it re-ignited my interest in owning an M14 again.
I owned one many years ago before I moved to Ireland and it was one of the most beautiful rifle I have ever shot.
Is there any chance of getting a license for a rifle like this in Ireland?

E.


27 Feb 2011 17:36
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009 19:56
Posts: 86
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
Evertb,

Welcome to the forum :)

The M14 is actually the full auto military of Gun, its the civilian M1A that is available to civilians

Yep they can be licenced under the current system in place. I know of a guy in dublin who has a norinco made version of the M1A

They are classed as a restricted firearm though so it can make them a little harder to get. Dont let there "restricted" classification put you off the idea though as there great guns to shoot.

Any more questions, feel free to ask away. :)


27 Feb 2011 18:43
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010 14:04
Posts: 4
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
@gunhappy_ie Thanks, I stand corrected ;-)

Any idea what the best way to buy one would be? Any for sale in Ireland or would import be better?


27 Feb 2011 18:56
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009 19:56
Posts: 86
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
There are few in the country, possibly only 1 haha so youll have to have it imported.

Talk to john in fingalsports, hes currently bringing in 2 rifles for me and hes a gentleman to deal with.

Youll have 2 choices really, either a real springfield @ €2500 mark (they sell for about that in germany) or a norinco made copy that are around the €1000 euro mark.

As i was thinking of getting 1 myself i did research into them a while ago. Both guns are good. The finish is better on the springfield and all accessories bought will fit.

The norincos require work to be done id your replacing the stock on them but and some accessoried for springfields wont fit (its all documented online if you ever wanted). The norincos also have alot of reviews and bad press about them (from american companies who want people to buy american made guns), its all bull....


27 Feb 2011 19:14
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 09:03
Posts: 2395
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
Evertb welcome to the site.

Sikamick


27 Feb 2011 19:33
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:31
Posts: 706
Location: Harold Hill,England
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
John K's mate in Canada has got the Norinco M14 in stock. Looks to be military spec with bayonet lug etc. 308 calibre? Brand new.


27 Jun 2011 19:22
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010 14:04
Posts: 4
Post Re: Licensing an M14.
Who is John and how do I get in contact with his mate?


27 Jun 2011 19:31
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