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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
Posts: 1037
performance not the calibre, if ya know what i mean :lol: ... reason.pdf

13.31 Suitable calibres for shooting deer range from the .243 to .45-70 :shock:

The .243 is legal for all species of deer found in the UK, however, for the larger species (Red, Sika & Fallow) .270 and larger calibres are generally more suitable.

Scotland 13.34 The legislative requirements for the shooting of deer in Scotland are based on the performance of the ammunition, not the calibre of the rifle. Ammunition must be “designed to deform in a predictable manner”. Article 3 of the Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985 makes different provisions for the shooting of Roe deer in Scotland. A calibre is not stipulated but the bullet weight must be not less than 50 grains, the muzzle velocity not 8 Guide on Firearms Licensing Law - Published August 2013 less than 2,450 feet per second and the muzzle energy of more than 1,000 foot pounds. In practical terms, this means a calibre of .222 or greater, rather than the .240 or greater for shooting Roe deer required in England and Wales. For deer in Scotland other than Roe, bullets of not less than 100 grains, and a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,450 feet per second and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,750 foot pounds are all required. The 1985 Order also allows the use of a shotgun in certain limited circumstances, but for land management reasons only. Closed seasons are also different in Scotland (see chapter 14). Otherwise the general comments on deer stalking above apply.

Once initial “good reason” 13:37 has been established for a rifle in shooting “dangerous game”, it may also be considered for shooting the larger deer species and boar in Britain. Expanding ammunition may (must in the case of deer) also be authorised for an applicant whose certificate allows for the rifle also to be used for shooting deer or boar in Britain.

23 Nov 2019 11:59

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1845
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
'Expanding ammunition may (must in the case of deer) also be authorised for an applicant whose certificate allows for the rifle also to be used for shooting deer or boar in Britain.'

Not so, and for the last couple of years at least. Even I have to have so-called expanding ammunition in order to be able to shoot my two vintage 7x57 Mausers with any chance of hitting the backstop, let alone the target.

The old round-nosed bullets - the original format of the 175gr Mauser bullet - are virtually cylindrical for about 80% of their length before rounding off in a sharp ogive. And the only bullets I can find like that are soft-points.

Before the relaxation of what must have been one of the more brainless decisions by the Home Office, I had to use modern-streamlined pointy bullets with boat-tails - totally useless except for going bang and travelling roughly in the direction of the target. Plus they were .274" diameter with an almost not-there bearing surface, and both my Mausers are very slightly overbored at .275". Hence the English calibre description of .275 Rigby often found on older rifles of this kind. Mine being a REAL Mauser, there's none of THAT jingoistic stuff.

NOW I can have the correct shape bullets, both the Model B Sporting rifle and Boer War Mauser carbine shoot tolerably well - into two inches or so at 100m - FAR better.

24 Nov 2019 22:56
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
Posts: 1789
Obversions on the importance of high velocity is evident by the fact some deer stalkers prefer a small to medium calibre rifle in .270 Winchester, .25-06 Remington and .243 Winchester - loaded with the 100 grain bullet reaching velocities at the muzzle of between 2,960 -3,000 fp/s. Velocity is essential for down range penetration and bullet expansion, where the slow, heavy old calibres, i.e., .303 & 8mm mauser, may fail to sufficiently expand over a given distance, where as, the smaller .243 inch (6mm) calibre launching a high velocity bullet, ensures the light 100 grain bullet retains its velocity for a rapid expansion, at the point of impact, delivering all of its kenetic energy. The old school, big bullet theory, dating from the black powder explosive act of 1875, solely relied on a low-velocity heavy-calibre bullet, for knock-down power. The slow projectile often failed to expand 'over' its own diameter and a cause for wounding deer, with the stalker having to track a blood trail 'over' hundreds of yards before the deer dropped dead. For this reason a great many old large calibre rifles in excess of .308 inch have bullet velocities of less than 2,450 fp/s making them not legal for stalking in Scotland regardless of how big the calibre.....?
To put i tanother way, If you double the bullet weight you double the kenitic energy. But if you double the bullet velocity, you quadruple the kenetic energy.
To repeat the quote by Dr Harbinson in 1978: “if you recall your physics. ? velocity is a much bigger affect on the net force, than the actual weight of the bullet, hence the importance of a high velocity.”

28 Nov 2019 22:41
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