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Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations 
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Joined: 03 Apr 2009 22:05
Posts: 720
Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
So what you are saying Tac, there is no hard and fast rule's about removing the bolt, once there is a breach flag inserted. personally im not in favour in removing the bolt before racking the rifle, there is always the chance you walk off the range with your gun boxed up and when you get home to clean, you find out the bolt is missing, apart from that, you are putting your bolt down on benches or leaving them on the rack or indeed you drop it on the ground picking up all sorts of crap on the bolt. I am in favour in removing the mag {Where it is detachable}and inserting the flag, but if it was a hard and fast rule that said the bolt is to be remover, where does that leave you if you are using an semi automatic / leaver action, you would have to strip down the rifle each time a cease fire is called. You couldn't have one rule for one gun and not for the other.

Hawkeye.


08 Jan 2014 16:26
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
Read it again - remove magazine if it has one, and insert a breech flag. If it has a bolt, take it out if you don't have a [mandatory] breech flag. Lever-action guns must be cycled THREE times by the RCO, left open and flagged. Semi-autos must have the magazines removed, actions cleared by the shooter in front of the RCO, locked open and flagged. Handguns of the permitted kind - same deal - semi-autos have mags out, actions cycled, left open and flagged. Revolvers of the permitted kind are opened and flagged directly into the barrel. BP revolvers are flagged through one chamber and the loading lever opened into the one chamber in line with the barrel. Single shot BP pistols are shown clear by physically measuring the depth of the barrel with the ramrod - takes about three seconds - then the RCO gets the shooter to insert the ramrod and a flag in the barrel.

Guns cannot be removed from the firing point unless the RCO gives you permission to put it away. There are NO gun racks on UK ranges - the gun is either on the shooting line, or in a bag/case.

Leaving your bolt on the range is YOUR problem.

tac


08 Jan 2014 22:00
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
I did read it again, and guess its not more or less the same everywhere. Over here in IRELAND we rack the rifles, we take out the bolt/mag and also insert a flag, the firearms are not left on the firing line during a cease fire flaged or not. I personally wouldn't leave the range and leave my bolt behind, i dont have a bolt-action firearm, so i suppose it wouldn't be my problem but possibly someone else
might leave their bolt behind.

Hawkeye


08 Jan 2014 23:07
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
Here in yUK guns stay on the bench/mat on the firing line until they are no longer needed - they are then cleared and put away in cases or bags. I dare say that there ARE racks in use somewhere, but I've never seen any.

At no time are guns left 'alone' on our range while shooters are forward of the FP. There are always at least three people on the range at any time to permit shooting to take place. We have a very high percentage of NRA-qualified RCOs in our club, too. At least a quarter of the 300 or so members are qualified to run a live-firing range here in UK.
New members are encouraged to do the course as well.

tac


09 Jan 2014 09:02
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
sparks wrote:

BTW, on point 4, it wasn't the range inspector insisting on ground baffles from what I've been told, it was a shooter from the NASRPC who was acting as National Development Officer at the time.



tac wrote:
Blackadder wrote:

Reference point 4: presumably the decision made by the officer in charge was based on their first-hand experience gained attending well known target shooting establishments, outside the jurisdiction. Bisley shooting complex - and the many ranges closer to home - in Northern Ireland. As as matter of interest, only if you know - did they have on the ground knowledge of the target shooting scene in Canada while in pursuit of a suitable standard.

Range Regulations:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0622.html



BA, as you may recall from the original thread long back, AFAIK there was no ground-walking in Canada with regard to the range standards. Had there been, they would have soon noted that not a single new range or even a refurbished range bore any resemblance to the farcical arrangements that have cost so much money in Ireland - unnecessarily so, IMO.

tac


a shooter from the NASRPC who was acting as National Development Officer at the time.?


16 Sep 2015 12:24
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
Quote:
hawkeye wrote:
I did read it again, and guess its not more or less the same everywhere. Over here in IRELAND we rack the rifles, we take out the bolt/mag and also insert a flag, the firearms are not left on the firing line during a cease fire flagged or not.
Hawkeye


Wrong to assume we rack the rifle here in Ireland. It MAY be how an individual ranges does it or how they decide to operate their own safety standard for specific operational reasons, that are provided in the safety menu drawn down from our range regulations.

May Appoint a safety officer. It can also mean May or May not or even May decide to use one senior officer covering an area and where racking a rifle is a useful means of firearm safety control.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011 ... e/en/print

Appointment of shooting area officers and range controlling officers

8. (1) The owner or operator of a range may appoint—

(a) a person to be a range controlling officer, and

(b) such number of persons as he or she considers necessary to ensure compliance with these Regulations to be shooting area officers.

(2) The owner or operator of a range shall make an appointment under paragraph (1) only where he or she is satisfied that the person concerned is competent to carry out the duties of a range controlling officer or, as the case may be, shooting area officer, under these Regulations.



tac wrote:
Read it again - remove magazine if it has one, and insert a breech flag. If it has a bolt, take it out if you don't have a [mandatory] breech flag. Lever-action guns must be cycled THREE times by the RCO, left open and flagged. Semi-autos must have the magazines removed, actions cleared by the shooter in front of the RCO, locked open and flagged. Handguns of the permitted kind - same deal - semi-autos have mags out, actions cycled, left open and flagged. Revolvers of the permitted kind are opened and flagged directly into the barrel. BP revolvers are flagged through one chamber and the loading lever opened into the one chamber in line with the barrel. Single shot BP pistols are shown clear by physically measuring the depth of the barrel with the ramrod - takes about three seconds - then the RCO gets the shooter to insert the ramrod and a flag in the barrel.

Guns cannot be removed from the firing point unless the RCO gives you permission to put it away. There are NO gun racks on UK ranges - the gun is either on the shooting line, or in a bag/case.

Leaving your bolt on the range is YOUR problem.


Range safety rules here in the yUK state -

'Show gun clear by -

a. Remove magazine - where detachable - and then

b. Insert a breech flag or

c. Remove the bolt.

I guess that rules are more or less the same most everywhere.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


What happens here, remembering that ALL our RCOs - over 70 in a club of just over three hundred members, BTW - are  NRA-qualified. Every member is encouraged to take one or all of the  NRA courses.
 
There are three - one general course for general types of range-style shooting, another for black powder shooting and yet another, compulsory, for  practical shotgun shooting.  Every club member who does  this is also a qualified PSA RCO.

FIRING LINE COMMANDS
 
RCO, during firing....'TWO minutes to target change!'
 
RCO, blows whistle - 'CEASE  FIRE, UNLOAD and stand AWAY from the guns'.  
[We have a yellow line a  metre behind the row of shooting benches].
  
Shooters stand behind it while......
 
RCO then checks each and every firearm  as clear, and having done so -
 
RCO - 'ALL CLEAR - clear to go  forward!'
 
AND RCO reminder - 'stay away from the guns!'
 
On returning to the Firing Point,..
 
RCO, 'EARMUFFS ON, and CARRY  ON!' 


NOTE - Shooting glasses are compulsory for shooting ANY kind of Black Powder firearm, but are advisory only for anything else.

 
On coming on to the firing point, the shooter [with his  gun/s in slips or cases] passes thought the entry point into a cleared space  about two meters wide that extends the full length of the firing point.  
There is a yellow line painted from one end of the firing point to the other,  and the positions are about two metres in front of that.  Everybody coming  onto the range has to stop behind the line, catch the attention of the RCO or  RCOs, and ask permission to go forward to set up.  If there are people out  front checking or setting up targets, nobody with a gun can proceed beyond  the yellow line until all are back at the firing point and shooting is about to recommence.  Guns cannot be removed from their casings until you are  actually on the bench or on the FP.  They must be carried muzzle up at all  times, and pointed in a safe direction when taking out or putting away.   Guns may not be moved between FPs without the permission of the  RCO. 
 
See this little video of our 100m range to get some idea of the layout...the dark-coloured flooring is resilient foam mastic/plastic and the  FPs are FIP concrete rafts.
The yellow line is unclear in the video, but trust me, it's there.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0J2qBrJlDw
 
The new 25m range is the same but smaller, obviously.
 



tac




Inside out upside down back to front the wrong way round...

NRA/UK/USA, might know a thing or two about range procedures over the past 150 years.

As you say club firearms/rifles are never racked in the UK and usually never in the USA/EU. NRA run competitions follow the same procedures of rifles staying in position, bolt-back and flag inserted. RO says the line is clear, check targets, on return, resume target shooting or case the firearm, all done under ranger officer instruction.


16 Sep 2015 12:38
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
Quote:
NOTE - Shooting glasses are compulsory for shooting ANY kind of Black Powder firearm, but are advisory only for anything else. tac


That is standard practice everywhere and in the NRA & ISSF rule book. Private commercial ranges and non affiliated association clubs, may make up their own rules or take advice from National Associations. The VCRAI is affiliated to NRA Bisley and the advice they give on the matter was to look at the HANDBOOK - APPENDICES 55

Quote:
NRA Bisley SOP's

Firearms/Shooting
All information pertaining to firearms and shooting on Bisley ranges is covered separately in the Bisley Range Safety Regulations.
Current versions of this are available from the NRA offices and the websites.



http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=ie


HANDBOOK - APPENDICES
55
APPENDIX III - EYE PROTECTION
It is the norm in a great many shooting activities that participants wear eye protection.

The NRA does not wish to be overly prescriptive on this issue and after consideration has reached the following position.

1
Eye protection is not considered necessary when using rifles that operate with a locked bolt or falling block because such firearms:
a
Do not eject small metallic parts or powder residue at the breech end except in instances of catastrophic failure
b
[b]Are designed to fail in such a way that the user is not exposed to debris

c
Are designed to fail in such a way that any debris travels only a short distance and should not present a hazard to others at the typical spacing of competitors on the firing point.



2
Because of the hazard from escaping debris, ejected components, splashback of fragments and combustion residue that arises in normal use, eye protection should be recommended whenever the following are in use:
a
Muzzle-loading pistols
b
Muzzle-loading rifles/muskets with exposed ignition mechanism (eg flintlock / exposed percussion cap)
c
Revolvers
d
Firearms with a blowback action, including both lever-release and semi-automatic mechanisms
e
Magazine-load firearms using pistol calibre ammunition where the small case may present a hazard on ejection from the rifle.
f
Hard targets at close range (provisionally under 25 metres).
3
Eye protection should, with some limited exceptions, be mandated for participants, officials and spectators in NRA events (whether competitive or not) involving the firearms listed at 2 above because:

a
The risk is largely to persons in the immediate vicinity of the firearm rather than the user
b
This type of event tends to have a wide variety of firearm types in use in close proximity at the same time on the same firing point
c
Some competitors perceive a competitive disadvantage in wearing eye protection, thus the requirement must apply to all
d
Enforcement is easier if everyone in a defined vicinity of the firing point is required to wear eye protection


18 Sep 2015 11:18
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
Quote:
The NRA does not wish to be overly prescriptive on this issue and after consideration has reached the following position.

The consideration is a directive from the 150 years of firearms experience at one of the largest shooting centers in the world.
The statement was delivered by experts, who know about firearms, having looking back over records, showing that there was no-need for bolt-action and breech loaded rifle users to wear a pair of safety glasses, unless of course, the target shooter needed to wear reading glasses. Other than that, the safety concern was negligible and not worth worrying about.

Most rifle powders usually burn completely in the few first inches after ignition as the bullet makes its way down the barrel. What exists behind the bullet, at the muzzle end, is a mixture of gas vapor that can re-ignite on exit from a short barreled rifle and the small traces of smoke, very much depending on the choice of powder used to fire the cartridge.
An over pressure cartridge, might under certain conditions, produce slight traces of burned powder granules towards the muzzle-end of a rifle moving at in and around the speed of sound under a force of psi behind the rifle bullet.

A catastrophic failure often a result of mud or snow entering the barrel, can make for a bad day and a complete structural failure of the barrel (vessel) peeling back like the proverbial banana skin.
The modern brass cartridge can withstand pressures of approximately double that of a standard loading. Roughly 80,000 psi from a test barrel. Once the cartridge was properly supported in the chamber the chances of having a failure run into the millions to one.
A cartridge failure from a pierced primer or a case rupture, should in the rare event, safely vent-off gas vapor and fine particles as part of the firearms design, with no more danger than hot cigarette ash or a burning match-head sending shrapnel back in the direction of the user.
NRA Bisley keep records of events no matter how small over a long history with the assurance of giving an accurate account for what are very rare occurrences, once a firearm and ammunition are in good condition. In the case of a classic bolt-action and breech loading design, the requirement as tac confirmed, is one of a simple advisory, that you may only if you want to, wear a pair of glasses of any kind and are not necessarily the type of colour option safety eye wear used by clay shooters.

Most bolt-action centerfire or fullbore and breech loaded rifles are noted for possessing strong actions with the inherent ability of being able to withstand the kind of abuse few other firearms can, making the old bolt-action the action of choice for extreme conditions. In the case of an idiot for example, that proceeds to load a similar looking but not the same cartridge for a different calibre firearm it might be expected they cause themselves an injury. In very rare circumstances a failure to inspect for hairline cracks in firearms and/or cartridge (used more than once), can lead the way to string of possible failures.

http://staffordshirephoenixrifleandpist ... page_id=30

http://staffordshirephoenixrifleandpistolclub.co.uk/

http://staffordshirephoenixrifleandpist ... age_id=300


30 Sep 2015 12:48
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
nice bit of emergency stop :roll:
If the command “STOP-STOP-STOP” is given stop shooting IMMEDIATELY, THEN DO NOTHING (even if your bolt is closed on a live round) and, with fingers clear of the firing mechanism, AWAIT FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS from the RCO. Anyone who sees a dangerous or potentially dangerous situation can call “STOP-STOP-STOP!”.

dodgy ammo over pressures does the stock in :shock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TleMPyDq56s


13 Oct 2015 12:08
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
bad day on the range :roll: case lands down her cleavage, hot brass stuck between the eye and glasses and abit of scope bite
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476271
https://youtu.be/d82upQ0XM-M

https://youtu.be/7Z05Z_IO2-w


29 Jan 2016 20:45
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
I am hearing a lot about the need to use safety glasses for full bore rifle shooting, does this apply to .22 and what types.

I found this link and there seems a lot of pros and cons for both: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... osd&page=1

One question re black powder shooting reenactors : Do they have to were eye protection glasses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrhRT9yx4YE

https://www.google.ie/search?q=unknown+ ... reenactors


30 Jan 2016 01:51
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Post Re: Firearms Training and Sporting Range Regulations
Fullbore in relation to what, firearm type, action, caliber maybe? There roughly exists 166, centerfire, semi-automatic rifles and of that number many are 3-5 shot C/F Semi-automatics, legal for hunting and the few thousand, give or take, bolt-action rifles of various calibers...?
This apperently is typical rumor and myths coming from someone new starting-out, possessing a little firearm knowledge - ?
Absent minded of the safety rules governing the sport here in Europe.....obviously, someone has been looking on-line, wide-eyed at the assortments of MIXED firearms found on shooting ranges - across the united states of America. Then becoming alarmed seeing a bullet hitting a reactive steel target - placed at a SAFE Distance! - American tactical shooting - men in black..etc - machine-gun totin' - gun nuts – belting-out -thousands of rounds...?

Likely another made-up story by someone that has imported a container load of safety equipement.. ?

Example from the National Shooting Centre of Ireland. Shooting ranges reach 1200 yds, noted for long-range target shooting, using bolt-action rifles.
As expected apperently, rules for safety shooting glasses at that range- are advisory only rules for handgun target shooting. And the rules note a warning: “reading glasses are not suitable eye protection”
Quote:
does this apply to .22 and what types.

See the above Bisley & International safety rules.. this being Ireland in a word, Yes and No.

Hyper-velocity .22 LR cartridges potentially can be dangerously in older firearms.
Semi-automatic firearms have more moving parts. Generally this design cannot withstand what a properly made bolt-action can take, where any failure was to occur.
Note: A simple but low-costing stand-up dividing blind can be deployed to protect other range users, on the same firing-line from brass casings, ejected by the neighboring target shooter with a semi-automatic firearm.

Left handed semi-automatic rifle shooters, including .22Lr users have the complication of an open-port to eject the spent brass in a direction towards them..
Cheap, usually bulk-pack plinking ammunition have occasional quality control issues.
On January 30th (2014) Winchester recalled M22 .22 LR ammunition, because two lots of ammunition was double-charged.
Quote:
This risk to shooters is aggravated in this instance, because M22 ammo was specifically designed to be used in AR-style semiautomatic .22s. A bolt-action or break-open .22 probably wouldn’t give a rat’s ass how much powder Winchester stuffed into a .22 long rifle case: it would rupture the case and maybe spit some hot gasses out of the breach but otherwise survive without damage. But a straight-blowback semiautomatic .22 could experience catastrophic internal damage as the still-burning cartridge blasted the bolt rearwards and continued to cook itself off while being ejected from the gun.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... ifle-ammo/

http://seattleguns.net/showthread.php?1 ... -22-recall

https://youtu.be/Jtb2MxawVPc

NEVER USE THE WRONG AMMUNITION.
Realoaded ammunition should be carefully assembled and test-fired in a controlled safe environment, looking-out for signs of pressure.

Noted Dangers:
Hot cigarette ash flying into the eye may cause a corneal abrasion or an eye blister, something the smoker will have experienced at least once every year.
Wearing contact lenses longer than recommended may injure the corneal surface.
Note: There are three layers before you get to the retina. Eyes usually heal quickly without any problems.
And of the many serious accounts of exploding airbags doing-off for no apperent reason while driving.
Exploding Mobile phones, other electronic battery powered devices that have caused reported serious or cartographic injury.

It is inevitable something will go wrong eventually, should you live long enough. And then there are the things to really worry about.
Shooting sports are well regulated to the extent that the sport is deemed by insurers to be safer then most other activities they provide with cover !


01 Feb 2016 14:26
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