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Scottish Target Sports 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
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Post Scottish Target Sports
Castlelaw ( Military) range, just outside Edinburgh.

"At the 2011 Scottish Historical Rifle Championships there were 27 individual competitions"........

Classification of firearms can be as simple as Vintage Arms society or as the HBSA (UK) do, apply rules that are broken down into various categories of firearms by date when first designed. Either way it amounts to a whole lot of history. Most of these rifles are fired in long range competitions or at shorter ranges in mixed matches depending on the level of experience.

Note the use of post veteran breech loaders/Transition Class of firearms.


http://rossrifle.com/forum/index.php?topic=347.0

The muzzle loaders used are typically Enfield or Springfield muskets, and Pedersoli or Parker Hale reproductions of Gibb’s, Whitworth’s, etc.


The Vintage breech loaders used are the Chassepot, Huskvarna 1873, Marlin, Martini Henry, Remington Rolling Block, Snider Enfield, Springfield Trapdoor, Winchester, etc.


The Classic breech loaders used are the German and Swedish Mauser, Lebel, Long and Short Lee Enfield, Mosin Nagant M91/30, P14, P17, Ross, Springfield 1903, Schmidt Rubin G96/11 etc.

The Veteran breech loaders used are the Garand M1, German Mauser K98, Lee Enfield No.4 and No.5, Mosin Nagant M38, Schmidt Rubin K31 etc.

The Post Veteran breech loaders used are the Accuracy International, AR15 clone, CZ, Howa, Remington 700, Savage, Steyr, TIGR SVD, Tikka, etc.

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26 Apr 2012 12:16
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1800
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Thanks for posting that one! At least they had some unusually good weather for the comps.

One thing bothers me, though - in 1988 I, and everybody else in the UK and Northern Ireland, had to hand in our semi-auto centre-fire rifles, many of which were the US-made M1 Garand, mine included.

They have been classed as prohibited weapons ever since, with a ten-year jail sentence awaiting anybody rash enough to be found with one in their possession.

So how do they shoot a Garand in Scotland in 2011?

There are NO straight-pull, UK-compliant, versions of the Garand.

tac, being a PITA again.


26 Apr 2012 15:51
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:31
Posts: 706
Location: Harold Hill,England
Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Still have my 1955 Springfield D/A Garand. New spec but has a moving slide. I think it's ex Norweigen Army. Got it from Worldwide Arms at The War and Peace Show for £400.
Still not many about on the D/A market. Old spec D/As which can dry fire sell for over £1200 now.

The question that still needs to be answered by the British Government is "Why have we still got all this gun crime when the licenced gun owners handed in their autos and 5 shot pumps"? The British Governments policy was and is flawed. Why have the criminals still got their hand guns and £25 AK47s? Answer= ineffective boarder controls!
Why take UKBA Officers off of anti smuggling duties and get them stamping passports instead?Passports never shot any one and you arn't allowed to board a overseas flight unless you have a passport in the first place!

I can rant further if required :mrgreen: Lester


26 Apr 2012 17:23
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Unlikely tac. The Vintage Arms Scotland club I doubt would ever sanction non UK legal firearms-not a chance. The M1 Garand and Carbine are supposedly not the most suitable candidates for conversion to stright-pull, that's not to say no import one-off version with no gas parts function are made by custom shops in the USA, Italy or UK. Try Saber defence UK and Suffolk Rifle.
http://www.suffolkrifle.com/SuffolkRifle/page2318

From the UK
http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=20

Quote:
A couple of people I shoot with have straight pull versions of the M1 Garand & the MP44/STG43


http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=5&t=247851
Quote:
I believe there's a straight-pull M1 Garand floating around the North East somewhere...


26 Apr 2012 17:30
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1800
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
I believe that there is some confusion here - BOTH firearms are called 'M1'.

The M1 carbine WAS imported as a US-modified firearm, but in VERY small numbers, possibly as few as five or six, before the law was changed and the importer threatened with legal action.

AFAI have been told, there are no M1 Garand straight-pull rifles in the UK at this moment. The reason is simple. As the law now is laid down, the firearm must have been made, ab initio, as a manually-operated firearm, and must not have been converted either in the country of origin, or here in the UK, to accommodate the legal requirement. This is why the current crop of AK-look alikes and others are actually in the factory with solid gas 'tubes' and no parts that can be converted, and why the importer of the M1 carbines faced the threat of a number of consecutive free vacations at tax-payers expense.

THIS is the Law - Quote from the UK Home Office website -

Prohibited Weapons
There are many types of firearms, especially those designed for military use, that have no place in the sporting field or hobby of shooting and others, for instance some hand guns, which have been brought into the prohibited category by Acts of Parliament. All of the following weapons and ammunition are prohibited:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 5 (1)
any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger.
(1.1) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges.


As for Sabre Defence Systems, I think you'll find that the MD, Mr Guy Savage, is up to his anus in alligators and facing a selection of extremely unpleasant and long-term vacations courtesy of the US government for his somewhat flexible interpretation of Federal firearms Laws and regulations.

Whinemeal, I've emole the president of the Scottish website, asking for clarification of their vewpoint.

Best

tac


26 Apr 2012 20:37
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Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
LesterH wrote:
Still have my 1955 Springfield D/A Garand. New spec but has a moving slide. I think it's ex Norweigen Army. Got it from Worldwide Arms at The War and Peace Show for £400.
Still not many about on the D/A market. Old spec D/As which can dry fire sell for over £1200 now.

The question that still needs to be answered by the British Government is "Why have we still got all this gun crime when the licenced gun owners handed in their autos and 5 shot pumps"? The British Governments policy was and is flawed. Why have the criminals still got their hand guns and £25 AK47s? Answer= ineffective boarder controls!
Why take UKBA Officers off of anti smuggling duties and get them stamping passports instead?Passports never shot any one and you arn't allowed to board a overseas flight unless you have a passport in the first place!

I can rant further if required :mrgreen: Lester


"Why have we still got all this gun crime in the uk" hmmmmm....... because tony b-lair was stupid enough to think banning the sport of 45,000 very law abiding people would make the criminals think "maybe i should give up murdering , thieving , and selling drugs and get rid of my illegal guns" :roll:
blair was also worried about the needless loss of human life , thats why he started a war in iraq based on a desertation blagged off the web.


26 Apr 2012 21:54
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1800
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Mornin', Gentlemen - just got this email from Mr Richie of the Scottish Vintage Arms Association - seems I'm way behind the drag curve...

Hi Tac,

I have had this passed on to me by the webmaster..

The rifle in question is a legal, manual version of the Garand. It has an action that has been manufactured with no gas parts, [in compliance with the law] although the remainder of the weapon is original. You have to hand crank it between shots.. (and yes it does go CLANG after the eighth shot!)

Hope this clarifies the situation!

Bryden Ritchie,

Secretary.
Vintage Arms Associaition of Scotland

I learn something every day.

tac


27 Apr 2012 11:58
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Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Who makes the new actions tac ? Armalon or someone ? I'd say they are expensive to buy.


27 Apr 2012 14:21
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:31
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Location: Harold Hill,England
Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
There are new built SLR L1A1s in straight pull about for £1500. Saw one at Bisley last year.


27 Apr 2012 17:15
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Try Irish man Mark Bradley/Bradley Arms UK
http://www.bradleyarms.com/about.html

ANGLO Custom Rife
http://www.anglocustomrifle.co.uk/accessories.php
http://www.anglocustomrifle.co.uk/sales.php

Quote:
The Home Office has formally, through FELWG and ACPO classed our L1A1 SLR as unquestionably Section 1. The adaptations to the bolt and carrier mean not only that it could not be converted to S5 use but that the fact it was submitted for formal approval means all Police Authorities will be informed as part of ACPOs guidance.

We will be showing our L1A1 SLR at The British Shooting Show at the Newark Showground February 26th and 27th (2011) along with Titanium Rifle Actions, Carbon and Titanium Rifles, Bottom Metals, Carbon-Wrapped Barrels, Titanium Moderators and a few beers.


27 Apr 2012 18:00
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Great range, looks very like An Riocht. ;)

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I like this position for firing, handy for the old boy's with bad backs, tho in my case you'd have to get a lift to put me in out of it. ;) :lol:

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Sikamick


03 May 2012 13:24
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
With ranges both military & civilian (Blair Atholl) Scottish Vintage Associations offer plenty of reasonably priced events throughout the year. Likewise similar associations are found all over the rest of the UK and EU.



Vintage Arms Scotland
Quote:
Competitions
1000 yard Competition at Blair Atholl
Membership Fees for 2012

Full Members - £TBC

Junior Members (under 18 on 1 Jan.) - £TBC

Family Membership - £TBC

Visitors Fee - £10 per range day

Members of Vintage Arms Scotland do not pay any range fees.

Visitors
Subject to the usual formalities, experienced shooters who hold a current FAC are welcome to attend range days and shoot as a visitor.

However, visitors are required to contact us prior to attending a range day.


25th August 2012
Long Range Competition at Blairatholl, shooting at 500 & 1000yards.

Please note: There is also a practice day on May 12th, shooting at 1000yards.

If you are interested in either or both of these shoots, please contact Jim McCall at least a week before either date - and preferably sooner!!

The Scottish Historical Rifle Championships


23rd September, 2012
The Scottish Historical Rifle Championships are hosted by Vintage Arms Scotland and held at Castlelaw Ranges near Edinburgh. The Championships puts on a wide range of shooting for muzzle and breech loading rifles.


http://www.vintagearmsscotland.co.uk/competitions.html

http://www.classic-shooting.info/classicintro.htm

http://www.classic-shooting.info/scotshot.htm

There is a range of competitions that cater for Classic Rifles in Scotland. The ones that I know about are listed below. I would be glad to list any that I have not included.

The Aberdeen Wapinschaw. The Wapinschaw is held at the Drums Links Ranges near Aberdeen in May each year. Check out the Aberdeen Full Bore Gun Club page for details.

Cawdor Rifle Club Classic and Muzzle Loading Shoot. Cawdor holds regular classics competitions. I will post any information about events as I get it. Further details about the club's events can be obtained from the Club Secretary David Squires 01340 820979 or check out the Club website.

Classic Long Range Day - Blair Atholl. Check my Long Range Day page from the home page.

The Scottish Historical Rifle Championships. Normally held at Castlelaw Ranges near Edinburgh in September the Championships puts on a wide range of shooting for Classic Rifles. The date and venue for the championships next year will be announced, hopefully, in the Spring. Look for information on my SHRC page.

North of England

Historic Breech Loading Rifle Competition hosted by Consett Sports Centre Gun Club. Held at Battle Hill Range, near Lartington, Barnard Castle, County Durham. in late August each year. 200yds Timed Fire, 200yds Single Snaps, 200yds Mad Minute and 300yds Deliberate Rifle.

Updated 6 April 2012



03 May 2012 13:26
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Blair Athol - long range: Vintage,Target Rifle (TR) F-Class and Match Rifle, out to 1200yds (1233yds).

Quote:
Jubilee Range, Glen Tilt, Blair Atholl, Perthshire:
The Longest Civilian Range in the World using electronic targets
is the Home of West Atholl Rifle Club and of the National Rifle Club of Scotland.
KME Electronic Target Frames (3m x 2m) to handle NRA Long Range Target Faces.
Firing point distances: 300m, 400yds, 500yds, 600yds, 900yds, 1000yds (987yds), 1100yds (1114yds) and 1200yds (1233yds).


http://www.westatholl.org.uk/RangePage.html
http://www.westatholl.org.uk/
http://www.etsys.co.uk/links.htm
http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.ph ... opic=11402


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03 May 2012 17:10
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Joined: 06 Jun 2009 09:39
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
2 x Ireland Team F Open and/or F T/R shooters in those photos :o


03 May 2012 19:08
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Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
Given time they will get there one day that's for sure. It should be remembered service & target rifle been at it a lot longer - give or take a couple of hundred years ;)

Of interest to vintage shooters, the fact that, age poses no barrier to these old-timers, when tested at extended ranges, once given the opportunity: - see novice results, 500 - 900 yards

http://www.classic-shooting.info/longrange.htm

Two rifles, the Ross and Garand account for themselves well.

Blair Atholl 17 August 2002 , Scottish Historical Rifle Long Range Championships


03 May 2012 20:39
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013 10:12
Posts: 151
Post Re: Scottish Target Sports
http://youtu.be/ap6nCI00dKM
First post.I've an interested in both of these, classic rifle F/TR


03 Feb 2013 21:58
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