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The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Proposal 
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Post The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Proposal
Pictures of people's reloading setup? and the process they go through to reload?
If you want, you're more then welcomed to use my pics / videos

Some videos of my reloading process

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0sLrjDBiuq
If you use google+ and facebook
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1168 ... 7282594081

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1168 ... 8891349761

https://www.facebook.com/matt.r.caprano ... 248&type=3
My Google+ and facebook profiles are public so you can copy / use any of the pictures if you want.

Thanks

Matt Capranos


04 Jan 2015 20:44
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Post Re: The Reloading Process
Many thanks to Matt, over there in God's Country.

BTW, Matt, if you're looking in here, it's pronounced OO-Bare-ti....... ;)

Best

tac


07 Jan 2015 21:54
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Post Re: The Reloading Process
Minsterly ranges UK

"Note the heavy bunker construction here at minsterly ranges for a two days of very comprehensive load deveolpement and evaluation of all our rifles."
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Regards Ian


08 Jan 2015 13:45
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Post Re: The Reloading Process
Thanks
Ralph, Cleveland USA


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08 Jan 2015 13:57
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Post Re: The Reloading Process
Way t'go, Ralph! And thanks for sprucing the place up before you took the pics! Makes MY loading 'facility' look like a bomb's hit it!

Best to all!

tac


09 Jan 2015 13:23
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Post The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Proposal
Reloading Working Group Proposal

For those that may not of read the entire contents in (full)
Note
Separation of said proposal requires some assembling to produce one view of what has been proposed

Note
Changes to the Explosives Act 1875: to use “any” explosive ANY explosive.

That really means Black Powder (aka) Gunpowder (Grade 1 explosive that dates from 1875) -

AND -

Smokeless “Shooter's Powder” modern safe, 'non-explosive' alternative-


The proposal has both types of propellants still remaining under the explosives act 1875 and has not, it should be noted, made an attempt at separating both types of propellant, with a set of lesser requirements and procedures afforded under the header that allow under any new proposed change for Irish Law- another type of justifiable 'Exemption' made this time for anyone wishing to reload with the much safer alternative, Shooter's Smokeless Propellant!
Modern smokeless Shooter's Propellant in every other EU country has much less stringent regulations attached - and, HSE/HSA internationally agree with the manufacturers that Shooter's Powder is definitely not an Explosive, but often is placed under the header of the explosive act with a sub-section all on its own.

Higher safety and security arrangements are only applicable for Shooter's Powder when storing large quantities of propellant. And perhaps a mistake occurred when drafting the reloading proposal, in relation to amounts and what is exactly available for sale.

The large commercial storage requirements for mixed propellant has HSA approval to build any Powder Store Room and has a large outlay expected for this type of arrangement.
On the other hand, the amount of Shooter's Powder typically for sale on the shelf of RFD's and for anyone reloading at home, find different levels of requirements, as set-out in law for approved amounts of non-explosive and explosive material, usually permitted under the relevant act, which may be found contained within regulations of the HSE/A control, found common across countries of the European Union.




The proposal to introduce 'three methods' of reloading ammunition


"Filling room"

- means a room suitable for the filling or making of cartridges,

(a) which is located at-
(1) a shooting range in respect of which an authorisation under section 4A (inserted by section33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006) of the Firearms Act 1925 has been granted, and
(2) at a distance, specified by a Government Inspector of Explosives from a store or magazine on that shooting range; and
(b) where such filling activity has been notified in advance, in writing, to the licensor of the store or magazine, and to An Garda Siochana.
“competent person”, in relation to filling, means a person who, having regard to the task or work he or she is required to perform, and taking account of the size or hazards (or both of them)
of the undertaking or establishment in which he or she undertakes the task or work, possesses sufficient training, experience and knowledge appropriate to the nature of the work activity to be
undertaken.


Provision in favor of gunmakers etc making cartridges

Note: Favors (1) Gunmakers, (2) Occupiers of a magazine (4) Store and ( 5) etc, etc and etc.
Sec 46-
The occupier of a “magazine, or store”, for any explosive shall not be required by this Act to take out a factory license by reason that in connexion with such magazine or store he fills for sale or otherwise any cartridge for small arms with the said explosive, provideda)
or otherwise any cartridge for small arms with the said explosive, provideda)
such filling is-
1) carried out only in a filling room in accordance with such conditions relating to public safety or security as may be imposed by a Government Inspector of Explosives ;
2) carried out by a competent person, and
b) The occupier of such magazine or store is a firearms dealer registered in accordance with the Firearms Act 1925
Making cartridges from magazine or store he fills for sale or otherwise any cartridge for small arms with the said explosive, provideda) or otherwise any cartridge for small arms with the said explosive, provideda)


Exemption of filling or carrying safety cartridges for “private use”
Sec 41 –

1. Nothing in this Act shall apply to the conveying for private use and not for sale any safety cartridges to the “ amount allowed” by this Act to be kept for private use.
2. Nothing in this Act shall apply to the filling by a person for private use and not for sale any safety cartridges to the amount allowed by this Act to be kept for private use, provided such filling is
a) carried out only in a filling room in accordance with such conditions relating to public safety or security as may be imposed by a Government Inspector of Explosives and is;
b) carried out by, or under the direct supervision of, a competent person, and is
c) carried out by a person who is a member of a club to which an authorisation under section 4A (inserted by section 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) has been
granted


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2014.WG.R ... Report.pdf

Note
However, the publication and enactment of this Bill will not happen in the near future due to other legislative priorities.


01 Feb 2015 11:58
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Any comments on proposed changes to the explosives Act should keep in mind the origin of the 2009 Irish firearms and range regulations, and the distinct Canadian twist that our revised explosives proposal we assumed might reflect and on what became of the recent Canadian, small arms cartridges, propellant powder and percussion caps proposals, which passed and became Canadian law.

Propellant storage regulation for a Magazine/Store Room/Bunker Storage Room, that is either inside or outside and, operate under License and have very specific safety regulations attached in the explosives act regulations for Canada, is regulated by the explosives branch of natural resources Canada.

Canadian Explosives Act - PART 14
http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/2013/1 ... nition.pdf


Note
Magazines and store rooms for holding a large amount of propellant have regulations that are never considered appropriate for personal reloading ammunition and/or loading ammunition at a club or range and for reeanactors loading for example a field cannon in the field?


The original NFA (National Firearms Sporting Associations of Canada) proposal that was excepted and became Canadian law.

https://nfa.ca/sites/default/files/Expl ... 282%29.pdf


01 Feb 2015 17:59
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Wow that exemption sec 41 looks fun u have to try at home http://www.reloaderaddict.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibBrpUO39RE
Choose factory ammunition and u limit your choices,so to get the most out of a firearm u probably should be handloading  
http://www.nosler.com/news-and-articles ... duct-lines http://forum.nosler.com/viewforum.php?f ... 91ec98ba88


04 Feb 2015 10:55
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
SMLE 303 wrote:
Choose factory ammunition..


It would appear that way. Drug Shipments worth several hundred millions of Euro are imported illegally into Ireland all too often and, are known to include sweeteners offering handguns, sub-machine guns and useful amounts of 'known factory brands' for reliable made ammunition' usually for 9mm weapons. The low-level criminal might find sourcing a box of common ammunition hard on occasion but suspect they depend for their lives on sourcing good factory brands.

Reloading myths Explored


Can rifle powders be used to reload handgun ammunition? NO

Rifle powder should never be used for reloading pistol ammunition. Rifle powder is specifically designed to use in the long barrel of a RIFLE which uses the barrel length to increase bullet velocity that allows the rifle bullet exit the muzzle.
On the other hand, rifle powder loaded into a pistol cartridge can more than likely, result in the pistol bullet becoming lodged in the shorter barrel of handguns.

Note
(rifle powder has a burn rate that is too slow to propel pistol bullets from the muzzle of a short barrel handgun )
The experience of every firearms and explosives branch bar one has almost universally excepted, without hesitation, that the "Explosive Branch" have very little concern over hand-loading activities. Hence, the significantly recent increased limits in Canada and the UK. In Ireland the experimental pilot reloading scheme appears to have been a great success for F-Class
target shooting, since its official launch in 2011 to the present day. It has, as would be expected, worked without a single reported incident, as is the case found everywhere.
But in Ireland and as day follows night - perception of anything firearm related, especially since 2009 has shown to a degree, the drought of experts in the field of sporting firearms and, expertise in related items that come part and parcel for the sport in every other EU country.
There is a tendency of assuming the worst possible outcome shall happen, where the value of having first done a risk assessment comes into play, that enables a method of categories, useful for reassuring the fears of others.

One such example is where everything gets lumped together into one box because someone assumed “they must be all the same”. Job done, case closed, go home.

Another Example

The 1875 act as amended:"Any Explosive" is an explosive under the WG proposal, rather than, consider placing into Cat.1 Black Powder (aka) Gunpowder and (conditions for use as follows.....) and Cat.2 Shooter's Propellant (aka) Modern & Safe, Smokeless Powder and (conditions for use as follows....) and whatnot series of insertions (aka) the exemption clause in favor of something or someone (aka) in the know and known persons.

Reloading (Firearms Licensing Conference Mullingar (2008)

"There was an expressed concern with reference to strong held views in relation to the reloading of ammunition for handguns in Ireland."
Quoted: The Chairperson observed that the legislation in relation to explosives is about to be completely overhauled; there is a heads of bill in the Attorney General’s office, and something will be published in due course. The Garda Commissioner has some very strong views in relation to the reloading of ammunition for handguns and the Minister for Justice has taken on board his views.

Do you know why it isn't recommended that you use rifle powder in handguns?

Because Rifle Powder causes handguns to squib fire and destroy the firearm in the process on firing another round.

Handgun and Shotgun propellant can generally be interchanged

The types of powder they use are virtually identical. Shotgun cartridges are plentiful and found on farms and a possible source for other types of activities should a box of shotgun cases became somehow altered, because of their faster powder burn rate but, there are other readily available products with greater values found common on the shelves of every hardware store.

In general pistol powders are fast burning

Rifle powder is slow burning. The two are actually total opposites and as a general rule there is not a single rifle powder that would be suitable for use in a pistol.

"In a semi-auto handgun, Rifle Propellant, will most certainly squib fire because of the lower pressure curve and slower bullet velocity, and that can be dangerous, or it will not cycle effectively.

In a revolver, it will just launch and the bullet might plop a few dozen yards away, or also may squib because of gases escaping the cylinder gap."


13 Feb 2015 16:08
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
choose neck sizing dies for your enfield ;)
http://youtu.be/Ur470t-ldAo

http://www.massreloading.com/rifle_neck_sizing.html

semi-auto, and lever or slide-action rifles should not be neck sized because the cartridge-to-chamber fit is too tight for reliable feeding.
cartridges for these types of rifles should be full-length sized only.


01 Mar 2015 21:44
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Choose nosler competition bullets and be happy http://youtu.be/9p55tGt6yHg 
“competent person”, in relation to filling, means a person who, having regard to the task or work he or she is required to perform, and taking account of the size or hazards (or both of them)
of the undertaking or establishment in which he or she undertakes the task or work, possesses sufficient training, experience and knowledge appropriate to the nature of the work activity to be
undertaken.Irish reloading myths,master competent person possessing sufficient training, experience and knowledge and his special provision competent apprentice jobseekers allowance for private use exemption training :mrgreen:


13 Apr 2015 21:14
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
If you can read words with more than one syllable, count and note measurements on scales, and follow a set of simple and repetitive instructions with care and attention, then you can reload safely.

If you saw the level of competency of SOME of the folks I know here and at home in Canada or the USA - people who you would imagine have difficulty in picking up a spoon and using the correct end - but are nevertheless experienced reloaders, you would know what a total and unwarranted song and dance the government and others in Ireland are making about the whole reloading business.

I'm at a complete loss quite why so much is being made of what is nothing more than cooking. If you can make a cake, then you can reload.

tac, totally bemused.

PS - @Matt - please talk to me about your .45-70 High Wall loads.


14 Apr 2015 11:17
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Quote:
If you can make a cake, then you can reload.

shut it apprentice you're fired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvGt1sW ... e=youtu.be

flovely jubbly fools cert qualified arse :lol:


14 Apr 2015 12:23
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
tac wrote:

government and others in Ireland are making about the whole reloading business.

I'm at a complete loss quite why so much is being made of what is nothing more than cooking. If you can make a cake, then you can reload.

tac, totally bemused.



You are not the only one totally bemused and left wondering how the reloading review submission was drafted in such a manner, as was previously stated at the Mullingar conference back in 2008, to the effect that "the army and members of the explosive branch of the DoJ had little experience of the reloading process" and therefore must rely on outsiders, one would be inclined to think..

Quote:
I'm at a complete loss quite why so much is being made of what is nothing more than cooking. If you can make a cake, then you can reload.


Not that hard to fathom. The cake analogy might find it taken the from the mouths of ammunition importers in Southern Ireland but was reloading ever (never) the revenue looser north of the border and- anywhere else for that matter. If anything, the trade tends to actually benefit lots, a result of an increase of interest in all aspects of shooting sports. It was suggested, after making some inquiries on this matter, that there is a 'complete lack of knowledge about reloading' and how it works as a benefit for all involved in shooting sports, with maybe, perhaps a cost benefit study being produced that should cast some light on the subject for others to see what's what..

Looking at the broader picture, the Ireland F-Class team got along just fine without a National Approved Mandatory Training Scheme.

The A team and reserve B team has since 2011 reloaded ammunition safely without a single incident, that might suggests any new proposal should expect, in terms of equality, the same model applying to all others wishing to do same, supported naturally by all shooting bodies, when this issue comes up for discussion with the Minister!

The F-class team was afforded the pilot reloading scheme rights back then and unsurprisingly, within a few short weeks, were off over there attending Bisley to take part in an International match, that saw them, compete successfully as part of hundreds of others reloading ammunition from around the world. At Bisley, reloading is done in a relaxed manner, that takes place where? out in the open, at the 'tables' adjoining the range. How about that for a short learning curve. As said here all too often, "reloading is as easy as making a nice sweet cake". The Novice reloader is - traditionally assigned a Mentor that supervises them to learn the entire process in easy to learn baby first steps. This is by far the usual way shooting has traditionally passed-on from someone with a lot of firearms experience. Teaching can take place at club range and/or the garden shed and garage. Individual coaching does not need a classroom to teach, lest we forget, and how learning to shooting firearms, has always developed, going back to the matchlock era of firearms instruction. Anyone can be guided in how to pass a group exam for the certificate of competence, over a number of days. But classroom theory is all well and good, when learning to drive a vehicle for instance, but as we know, firearms training is that bit different and the classroom should never be considered the gold standard and a direct replacement for individual coaching, when teaching firearms and reloading, which as a method of teaching, remains best practice here in Ireland and the UK.


16 Apr 2015 15:54
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Blackadder wrote:

The F-class team was afforded the pilot reloading scheme rights back then and unsurprisingly, within a few short weeks, were off over there attending Bisley to take part in an International match, that saw them, compete successfully as part of hundreds of others reloading ammunition from around the world. At Bisley, reloading is done in a relaxed manner, that takes place? out in the open, at the 'tables' adjoining the range. How about that for a short learning curve. As said here all too often, "reloading is as easy as making a nice sweet cake". The Novice learning reloading is - traditionally assigned a Mentor to supervises them to learn the process in easy to learn first steps. This is by far the usual way shooting has been traditionally passed-on from someone with a lot of firearms experience. Teaching can take place at club range and/or the garden shed and garage. Individual coaching does not need a class room to teach it, lest we forget, and how learning to shooting firearms developed going back to the matchlock era of firearms instruction. Anyone can be guided to pass a group exam for the certificate of competence over a number of days. But, class room theory is all well and good, when learning to drive a vehicle for instance, but as we know, firearms training is that bit different and the class room should never be considered the gold standard and a direct replacement for individual coaching, when it comes to teaching firearms and reloading, which as a method of teaching, remains best practice here in Ireland and the UK.



Reloading 101.

Teacher - Step #1 - Watch me do it and learn.

Learner - I'm watching and learning.

Teacher - Step #2 - Now YOU do it.

Learner - Step #3 - I'm doing it.

Teacher - NEXT!

tac


17 Apr 2015 20:03
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Quote:
who the teacher for qualifying the “competent person” given theirs no expert and impossible to know how to do something until they've actually done it.
I'm at a complete loss quite why so much is being made of what is nothing more than cooking.


Needless to say the review proposes to anointed a number of self-appointed reloading experts, one assumes, with the obvious intention of entering the sports shooting scene post ending of the pilot scheme...
Not unexpectedly something is always brewing at low heat on the hob that takes place in the background on the proverbial kitchen stove.
It is said, proof of the pudding was always in the eating and if ever a pilot scheme report was over done, it would surly report back to headquarters, stating in glowing terms, the reloading pilot scheme was deemed to be a complete success. Interested Sports Shooting Bodies would need to wear glasses should they neglect the accumulated wealth of gathered data since 2011, with regard to the pilot scheme. It proceeded without sight nor sound of the apprentice competent person[s] waiting in the wings, ready to flash his or her credentials. That is something telling in itself and of interest for the already vetted and approved license holders possessing firearms that they are entitled to use with commercial live ammunition. To assume anything else warps logic to the extent the review has made proposals for a very limited controlled (darkened room at the range) reloading scheme, operated by the competent person[s] extending them the permission and perhaps rights to sell.
Mysteriously where do the proposed apprentice experts acquire his or her trade that gains them; sufficient training experience and knowledge appropriate to the nature of the work activity to be undertaken?
From another EU jurisdiction most likely where no requirement in law for such things as the competent person exist. Out of interest for what has been already pointed-out, there is no applicable state approved standard to adhere to over here, that in any way can be consider the benchmark reloaded standard in Ireland. For some unknown reason our nearest EU neighbors with far greater experience of firearms and accessories consider reloading ammunition as something safe to do having little danger attached for a process that can safely be done in your garden shed which makes it all look very odd Ted.


30 Apr 2015 12:03
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
I suppose a real good case (pardon the pun) can be made for vintage and antique firearms needing to reload ammunition, where trying to source ammunition for them can be near to impossible?


08 May 2015 14:21
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
Irish reloaders need help!! http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php ... -need-help!


27 Sep 2015 16:29
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
IN THE BULL wrote:

Ok have the harebrained schemes in small groups of wildly talented, cram in a closet and come out certified the other end :mrgreen:


Last edited by SMLE 303 on 20 Aug 2016 12:36, edited 1 time in total.



12 Nov 2015 22:09
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Post Re: The Reloading Process and Reloading Working Group Propos
The golden circles trading stamps no doubts

ray


01 Dec 2015 12:11
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