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Restricted means pegged at .308cal ? 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
I really have not the foggiest idea of the rationale for the cut-off point 'twixt non-restricted and restricted firearms being pegged at .308cal. After all, it is a comparative newcomer on the rifle calibre scene, having only been popularised in the mid-50's.

Just what is so special about it?


29 Oct 2019 13:34
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Post Re:Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
...ah, the old reliable, experts choice, do it all, cartridge. A must for F-Class, and is one of the best recommended classic stalking cartridge....decisions taken on a whim are often illogical, Jim.?


29 Oct 2019 22:44
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Post Re:Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
The Garda Commissioner's guidelines state a restricted firearm is any centre-fire rifle over .308 inch (7.62mm) calibre or centre-fire rifle whose overall length is less than 90 centimetres will come into the restricted firearm category.

ALSO

S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008) (i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch)
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

7.62mm ( measured across the lands is considered (.30 calibre) in loadings from a range of bullets - .308 American .303 British and 7.62 mm Russian.

A restricted firearm in Canada means it is for range use only at an authorised firing range. The range operator and club memebers won't be the slightest bit alarmed at the sight of a semi-automatic AR type rifle or whether the material and colour of the stock came decked out in shocking pink. The range of calibres are approved by the government range inspector, aided by the Canadian / Irish government templet used to design the target shooting range. The templet can accommodate a wide range of firearms and calibres, up to and including, dangerous game and very long range, heavy calibres. If the shooting range was willing and able to accommodate even the mighty .50 BMG – it can, do so, once the safety aspect was achieved.

It's not the big calibre stupid but the interpretation by so-called expert/s and their ill-conceived ideas that hadn't been carefully considered. Actual calibre is not an exact reading. It can be measured from the across the lands, groove to groove, and the diameter of bullet itself. All these measurements can be taken a guide for the advertised dimensions printed on a box of cartridges. Tolerances can change and vary over time or during a world war, when production standards vary. Take the .220 inch calibre rifle, loading a bullet that measures from .223 to .224 inch. The slightly larger bullet is for the required tight seal inside the grooves ( ..not measured off the lands) preventing hot gasses escape past the bullet. The bullet caliber – or the calibre measurement, taken from 'across the grooves', is closer to an exact reading in inches, than the equivalent, done in metric for the 7.62 mm NATO measured across the lands.

Quote:
https://www.britannica.com/technology/bore-firearms
True "caliber" specifications require imperial measure, and even when cartridge designations (often mistakenly referred to as "caliber") only specify caliber to even tenths or hundredths of an inch, actual barrel/chamber/projectile dimensions are published to at least thousandths of an inch and frequently tolerances extend into ten-thousandths of an inch.


Quote:
7.62 mm caliber is a nominal caliber used for a number of different cartridges. Historically, this class of cartridge was commonly known as .30 caliber, the imperial unit equivalent, and was most commonly used for indicating a class of full power military main battle rifle (MBR) cartridges. The measurement equals 0.30 inches or three decimal lines, written .3″ and read as three-line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber
The 7.62 mm designation refers to the internal diameter of the barrel at the lands (the raised helical ridges in rifled gun barrels). The actual bullet caliber is often 7.82 mm (0.308 in), although 7.62 mm Soviet weapons commonly use a 7.91 mm (0.311 in) bullet, as do older British (.303 British) and Japanese cartridges.


24 Nov 2019 21:37
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
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 Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
The sooner the expert know their ballistics :mrgreen: they're different sounding rounds shooting 30 caliber holes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-J1DOQG-8U


28 Nov 2019 12:31
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
SMLE 303 wrote:
The sooner the expert know their ballistics :mrgreen: they're different sounding rounds shooting 30 caliber holes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-J1DOQG-8U


Ah, I fear that it's a case of 'don't confuse me with facts, just tell me what I want to hear'.


29 Nov 2019 22:25
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Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
it's a case judge the expert screwed up :lol:


30 Nov 2019 21:55
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Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
tac wrote:
I really have not the foggiest idea of the rationale for the cut-off point 'twixt non-restricted and restricted firearms being pegged at .308cal. After all, it is a comparative newcomer on the rifle calibre scene, having only been popularised in the mid-50's.

Just what is so special about it?


NOTHING Tac, it all comes down to who you know, not what you know. A know it all with connections and a rifle range was asked for advice by the powers that be, (and he said in his reply) .22 to 308 (OK) ; everything else (BECAME ) restricted. On one persons advice, by the way, who is not an expert in this, is why the way we are here.

And all the classic calibres of firearms (over .308) became restricted. viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2411


Our Ireland ?????

you tube video that explains calibres: As posted earlier by one of our members: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-J1DOQG-8U


Last edited by Blackadder on 01 Dec 2019 21:05, edited 2 times in total.

Mod Edit (over .308)



01 Dec 2019 00:37
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Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
tac wrote:
Ah, I fear that it's a case of 'don't confuse me with facts, just tell me what I want to hear'.


The reality is a tiny number of certificates are issued for restricted, dangerous game and long range, large rifle calibre rifles in this country. There was never a need to restrict over 7.62mm (.308) historical rifle calibres, and modern design over this calibre, because of the - COST (five Euro + per cartridge) and the requirement for a suitable approved rifle range. It puts a burden and limit on something that appeals to a few RFDs and wealthy firearm enthusiasts.

Historical calibres over 7.62 mm can and should be returned to EU-Cat. C, control of firearms, recommended for bolt-action / repeating rifles, to include all rifle calibres...

As for the facts, they speak for themselves. You don't need to be an expert to understand.


04 Dec 2019 18:39
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Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
 
STEYR  HS M1 Rfle 50 BMG £7,500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuLQ0MRo8JA

Hornady Ammunition 50 BMG 750Grn A-MAX (10 Pack) £100 https://www.cdsgltd.co.uk/hornady


Anyone ready to start a mortgage :mrgreen:


05 Dec 2019 19:29
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Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
Bump


13 Dec 2019 00:49
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Post Re: Restricted means pegged at .308cal ?
Historical Rifle Calibre Comparison.

Mauser 7.92mm-8x57mm (.31-.32 calibre) (restricted) no one from the Irish FCP ever explained the reasoning for the decision, to date..?

Winchester .30-06 / 7.62×63mm (non-restricted)
.30 calibre / .308 diameter bullet (taken from the widest bore measurement across the groove) adopted by the U.S. Army in 1906.

Both cartridges have about the same potental performance. The .30-06 (available almost everywhere ) has the wider range of bullets than almost any other cartridge: 110 grains – 220 grains, to the latest range of .308 super performance bullets with a higher (BC) surpassing the 8x57mm mauser. The improved ballistic coefficient of the .308 means it has less drag or air resistance in flight, enabling the slightly smaller diameter bullet retain more of its velocity and kenetic energy than the equivalent 7.92 / 8mm projectile. Overall the .30-06 can match or exceed the performance of the 8x57mm that is limited by the range of underperforming factory ammunition.

Restricting a historical rifle because the calibre exceeds 7.62 mm - is just, antiquated ballistics from the 1870s, when historically a large charge of black powder was needed to launch a big and slow, exposed-lead, round-nosed bullet. It was the only means back in the 1870s of achieving greater stopping power.

1886

Is the year when the velocity of a military rifle bullet doubled and calibres were reduced from .45 BP to.32 /.30 - ending up in 1977 with the current .223 / 5.56 Nato cartridge. It fits in with an understanding of modern firearms from 1886 - if you double the bullet velocity, you quadruple the kenetic energy. Dr Harbinson in 1978 explained it in a similar way on national television - "velocity is a much bigger affect on the net force, than the actual weight of the bullet, hence the importance of a high velocity.”
The blackpowder era was ended with the French military adopting Paul Vieille's nitrocellulose smokeless propellant which was able to produce much higher velocities in conjunction with a rifle calibre reducion to the smaller 8mm/.32 - 232 grain - jacketed, flat -nosed bullet. Captain Georges Desaleux designed the first spitzer (pointed) 198 grain, boat-tail-bullet, with a velocity of 2,400 ft/s - (introduced in 1898) for the French Lebel 8mm rifle.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwYl6ANNlw

Quote:
Quote Wikipedia: The 8×50mmR Lebel (8mm Lebel) (designated as the 8 × 51 R Lebel by the C.I.P.[1]) rifle cartridge was the first smokeless powder cartridge to be made and adopted by any country. It was introduced by France in 1886. Formed by necking down the 11×59mmR Gras black powder cartridge, the smokeless 8mm Lebel cartridge started a revolution in military rifle ammunition. Standard 8mm Lebel military ammunition was also the first rifle ammunition to feature a spitzer boat tail bullet (balle D), which was adopted in 1898.[3] The long-range ballistic performance of the 8mm Lebel bullet itself was exceptional for its time. For use in the magazine tube-fed early Lebel rifle, the 8 mm case was designed to protect against accidental percussion inside the tube magazine by a circular groove around the primer cup which caught the tip of the following pointed bullet. However, the shape of its rimmed bottle-necked case, having been designed for the Lebel rifle's tube magazine, also precluded truly efficient vertical stacking inside a vertical magazine. The bolt thrust of the 8mm Lebel is relatively high compared to many other service rounds used in the early 20th century. Although it was once revolutionary, the 8mm Lebel was declared obsolete after World War I and was soon after replaced with the 7.5×54mm French round.


18 Dec 2019 19:40
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