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Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1783
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Blackadder wrote:
Growing interest in BP firearms, maybe those that live-fire them can explain some of the rewards from shooting old firearms?



What's to say? Great craic! Most revolvers and single-shot pistols are very much cheaper than their cartridge counterparts, due to the different grades of steel used to make them. A typical .44cal C&B [that's cap & ball] revolver made by Pietta is around eu300. However, to that you must add the cost of actually running them - percussion caps, powder and ball. Most everybody casts their own, BTW.

Tou can see me shooting some of my old guns on YouTube- rifles and carbines and so on.

That apart, the historical interest is there in spades, especially if you shoot firearms like the Civil War Springfield, Zouave, or Enfield. Don't forget that the Irish fought on both sides during that terrible conflict.

Anyhow, for me, the fun is loading them up and letting loose - the commotion is fantastic!

Long-range rifle shooting is also something that can be done with muzzle-loaders with great success, using original guns [if you are rich] or replicas [if you are mildly rich], and the Midlands ranges, at 1200 yards, are entirely suitable for that.

The BPCR-type guns - Sharps, Rolling Blocks and so on, are hugely popular and enormous fun to shoot.

I've put together a little article - as ever, ask any questions you like.

tac

Shooting the .58cal Parker-Hale Musketoon this morning.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFD5HBtz ... 5Q&index=1
Close-up of the ould beast itself...

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After casting up a pile of .58cal Minié bullets yesterday afternoon, I took advantage of the fine morning to go shoot some of them down range, and to spread a little BP happiness by letting some noobs have a few shots, too. The gentleman you see in the little movie had never fired ANYTHING black-powdery before - I think that the melon-eating grin on his face afterwards says it all.

I'm not going to describe the way I cast bullets in any great detail - cleverer folks than me have posted enough movies on Youtube showing how it's done. Suffice it to say that casting your own bullets - whatever size and shape they are - is a wholesome, healthy and worthwhile enterprise, given the, ahem, remarkably enthusiastic fancy price tags applied to the said bullets in the local gun store. I've figured out that I can make well over four or five thousand .457" ball for my revolvers for the price of buying 100 ready-made. Mind you, that's the cost of the hydro or whatever YOU call the stuff that comes out of the 'lectricity tap on the wall. Me, I'm still using the old Victorian water pipe that came out of our old house in Chester as a source of pre-atomic lead of the highest quality. The alternative, church roof lead, leaves unpopular gaps that allows rain in on the congregation, or so I'm reliably informed by those who choose this method of lead acquisition.

How does it shoot? Well, the full-size rifled musket - the Pattern 53 Enfield - much-used in the Crimean War and then by BOTH sides in the WoNA, or as you might call it, the American civil War - shoots a 535gr Minié ball [from the French word - balle = bullet] used two and a half drams of fine rifle powder - these days, about 68gr of FFg grade Swiss powder [the best]. The Musketoon, in deference to its short barrel, uses the same bullet, but only 50-55gr of the same stuff, depending on whether or not you are a Northerner or a Southerner. The South had to do anything they could to reduce the amount of everything they used up to fight the industrious Northern States. As you can see from the movie, recoil is not excessive - about the same a good 12 gauge load. The smoke, however, is something else, and

a. hangs around - especially if you are wearing a fleecy jacket.

b. smells somewhat like a large and sulpherous cow-fart, again, you'll be noticed by Her Indoors on your return from the range. Me, I have to take my shooting jacket off and put it in a bag BEFORE I get into the car to come home.....

GREAT!!!!

While we are talking about casting - here are a couple of hundred .457"cal ball for my Ruger Old Army and other .44cal revolvers...the rest have been put away. I worked all afternoon until dusk, and must have made around 4-500 and fifty Minié ball.
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This is what's left of the fifty .58cal Minié bullets after this morning's shoot ....
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As you can see, they are industrial-sized bullets in every dimension, and come out of the Musketoon at an enthusiastic 1100 feet per second. A word about the design - Captain Claude Etienne Minié was a French officer with a vision. He saw that the design by a fellow Frenchman, Delvigne, which used a pillar sticking up from the centre of the breech to expand the otherwise loose-fitting ball, was NOT the way to go. So he designed a large- hollow-based bullet to fit the new-fangled rifle musket of the Grande Armée as well as that of the British Army of the day - around 1851 or so. The British called THEIR new gun the Enfield Pattern of 1853 rifled musket. The French called theirs something else, of course. You can clearly see that hollow base on the bullets in my hand. Instead of shooting a loose-fitting and easy-to-load ball of astounding inaccuracy from a smooth-bore musket, the Minié bullet was f rom the onset a close fit down the rifled bore for ease of loading, but, on firing, the base expanded to fit into the rifling grooves. The result was two-fold -

a. Riflemen extended the lethal range of their guns by at least a factor of five times - the Minié bullet would easily kill at 800 yards or more, as the unlucky Russians were to find out a few years later in the Crimea.

b. Many more shots could be fired by the well-trained rifleman before the crud from shooting BP overwhelmed him.

Enough of the Minié - let's look at a few handguns........44cal and .36cal.

This is my Ruger Old Army [bottom gun with Pachmayr grips] - a not-quite-a-replica of anything .44cal cap and ball revolver, along with three other popular guns in the same calibre -

Top - Uberti Remington Model New Army of 1858
Next - Pietta Rogers & Spencer
Next - Spiller & Burr - Confederate States copy of the Remington but with a brass frame to save steel, and bottom - the Ruger Old Army in modern stainless steel.
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My other .44cal revolver is the HUGE Colt Walker - mine is a Colt replica, serial #1816 [the real things stopped at #1250] - and yes, it IS as big as it looks - weight almost five pounds and that barrel is nine inches long...it uses the same charge in EACH chamber as the Musketoon does in the breech....
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And in its fitted case with accessories...
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Here is a line-up of five BP firearms and my Ruger Super Redhawk. It's a .357Magnum long-barrelled revolver that conforms to the legal requirement here on mainland GB for what constitutes an allowable cartridge-firing modern handgun. You'll notice the 14" barrel and the appalling sticky-out thing on the bottom of the grip - making it 600mm overall. In Northern Ireland, where the ycan still have modern handguns that actually look like modern handguns, they'd laff themselves fartless at the sight of this thing, but here we grin and bear it - or so without.

Left to right - Pedersoli .36cal LePage single shot flintlock target pistol - Ruger Old Army - and another one - Ruger Super Redhawk .357Magnum - Ruger Old Army - Pedersoli Kuchenreuter percussion target pistol in .44cal - THAT baby cost as much as a full-bore/centrefire rifle - £40 change out of £1000.

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I'll answer any questions you might have, either on the VCRAI forum or by PM.

Best

tac

http://youtu.be/JFD5HBtz4PA


Last edited by tac on 21 Jan 2013 11:37, edited 2 times in total.



19 Jan 2013 22:07
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Marvin suggests fitting a stock to the Ruger. Thus making it a rifle in a sense. The first repeating rifles were nothing more that the six-shot pistol action embedded in a rifle frame & stock.


20 Jan 2013 17:33
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1783
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
I don't know prezackly where Marvin lives, but in the UK, USA and Canada, putting a stock on a handgun that has a barrel less than 16" long that was not originally fitted for one - as indeed some Colts were - makes it into a prohibited weapon, and can earn the owner/converter, in USA and Canada, 10 years pokey and an unlimited fine. In UK it's only five years, though, so if he is trying it out, he might consider moving here.

tac


20 Jan 2013 18:52
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Cap & ball looks fun tac


20 Jan 2013 20:21
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
SMLE 303 wrote:
Cap & ball looks fun tac


Trust me, ANY kind of BP/sub shooting of old-style firearms is great fun. It's more, somehow, kind of relaxing, mainly, I guess, because everything takes a lot longer to do, even if you use pre-made-up cartridges for the military muzzleloaders. That's something I'll be trying/doing for my .58cal Musketoon in the next week or so while the weather is so bad.

I'll post the method here if anybody is interested...

tac


21 Jan 2013 11:33
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 13:17
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Shooting the 1873 Trapdoor Springfield
http://youtu.be/9qmFmOJ-q-Y


04 Feb 2013 12:00
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Joined: 31 May 2010 17:44
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Has there been any representations to the doj or gardai about the licencing of blackpowder firearms ? I would dearly love a ruger old army like tacs.


04 Feb 2013 20:21
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
Posts: 1783
Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Mornin', All. With the increasing interest in actually SHOOTING black-powder era firearms, rather than hanging them on the wall, here is a list of most-used and popular calibres currently used in UK and the USA/Canada.

Muzzle-loading firearms - Long [rifles and carbines]

1. .451" Target/Volunteer rifles, shooting either a patched elongated bullet [Rigby and so on] or hexagonal bullet, patched or not - Whitworth - competitions out to 1200 yards.

2. .577" [if you are British/Canadian] or .58cal [US usage] - P53 Enfield rifled Musket or plain rifle, and the Springfeld Model of 1842 and 61 - competitions out to 800 yards.

3. .62" cal Baker rifle of the Napoleonic Wars [Sharpe's Rifles] - competitions out to 200 yards

4. .65" or .69" Charleville Napoleonic smooth-bore musket of the Napoleonic Wars - competitions out to 100 yards.

5. .70"/75cal Brown Bess - carbine or full-length - competitions out to 100 yards.

5. Many others.....

Cartridge-loading firearms

1. 11x41R Mauser Model of 1871/84 - out to 600 yards

2. .43 Remington - All Remington Rolling blocks in any of the Scandinavian or Egyptian calibres - out to 600 yards.

3. .45-70 Gov - and all version of the Springfield Model of 1876 - Trapdoor Springfield or Sharps

2. .577 Snider rifles or carbines - competitions out to 600 yards

2. Any and all of the Martini-Henry/Martini Enfield in .577-450 and early .303 British.

Plus all the Werndl, Beaumonts, Spencers and other European and American BP cartridge-era firearms.

HOWEVER - MANY of these rely on the ability to make your own ammuntion :(

tac


08 Mar 2013 12:10
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011 12:56
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
What Types Of Propellants should I use for CVA Muzzleloaders :mrgreen:
https://youtu.be/NcqJu958CvY


20 Apr 2013 11:28
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
rowa2 wrote:
Has there been any representations to the doj or gardai about the licencing of blackpowder firearms ? I would dearly love a ruger old army like tacs.


Yes and No. In 2009 we sent the DoJ our reloading submission and again in 2014, our submission on reloading to the Dail Justice committee. While we did receive an acknowledgment for our efforts - there was no invitation sent in the post...
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2221&start=40

Quote:
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2009, Reloading pdf Submission to the DoJ. mk 2 doc.pdf [97.35 KiB]
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Attachment:
 Reloading Submission to the Justice Committee, 2015.pdf [324.06 KiB] 
Downloaded 110 times 

Quote:
IN THE BULL wrote:
Now comes the hard part dealing with team members that don't get along
http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-conte ... 181018.pdf

From the attached list of our shooting representatives, at the very least, one of the target shooting bodies should be expected to raise the issue of blackpowder...just, don't count on it becoming a priority anytime soon!


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30 Jan 2019 19:19
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 11:37
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Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
?. What are so called experts (Firearms consultative panel) done since 2009 to address certain known licensing anomalies and for firearms with historical significance. Have they simply become a talking-shop of vested interest groups serving only to suit themselves...


30 Jan 2019 22:13
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009 19:10
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Location: Eastern UK, Oregon USA and Ontario Canada
Post Re: Shooting Blackpowder Firearms
Blackadder wrote:
?. What are so called experts (Firearms consultative panel) done since 2009 to address certain known licensing anomalies and for firearms with historical significance. Have they simply become a talking-shop of vested interest groups serving only to suit themselves...


NOTHING.


02 Apr 2019 16:14
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